High Attack Speed any diminishing return?

Does stacking Attack Speed have diminishing return at higher levels like Cast Speed?

Like is it literally, normal 100% Attack Speed = 1 Attack/Second and with 500% Attack Speed = 5 Attacks/Second? Because for Cast Speed it will be a lot less than that.

I remember there was a formula posted on wiki, something like Cast Time = 0.5 / (total cast speed) or something and there were charts showing, but I can't find that anymore. Anyone knows where it went? Formulas for Attack Speed, Attack Time, Cast Speed, Cast Time relationship, etc.

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Attack_speed
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Cast_speed

They work the same way and have only natural diminishing returns, no other mechanic is in play.

0,5s attack time is 2aps, 400% increased attack speed brings you to 0,1s attack time which is 10aps
0,5s cast time is 2cps, 400% increased cast speed brings you to 0,1s cast time which is 10cps

no, those two work exactly the same

attacks(casts) per second * (1 + % increased attack(cast) speed)

the only difference and source of your confusion is that weapon speed is listed in aps, while cast speed in cast time (1/cast per second)

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raics escreveu:

They work the same way and have only natural diminishing returns, no other mechanic is in play.

0,5s attack time is 2aps, 400% increased attack speed brings you to 0,1s attack time which is 10aps
0,5s cast time is 2cps, 400% increased cast speed brings you to 0,1s cast time which is 10cps

"

Ludvator escreveu:

no, those two work exactly the same

attacks(casts) per second * (1 + % increased attack(cast) speed)

the only difference and source of your confusion is that weapon speed is listed in aps, while cast speed in cast time (1/cast per second)

Thank you.

I'm still a bit confusd here, so if I stack "% increased damage" my DPS will actually increase proportionately to what i invested. Can this same thing be said with "% increased attack speed" relative to DPS?
Like I'm afraid to make a build and buy 100c worth of items to boost Attack Speed and not getting the full results.

10% increased damage has the same effect on your dps as 10% increased attack speed, both add 10% of your damage or attack speed base value.

However, the relative gain may differ depending on how much you previously invested. If you already got 300% increased damage taking another 10% will boost your dps by 2,5% and if you got 100% increased attack speed another 10% will net you 5% more dps. That's what I meant by natural diminishing returns.

"

Like I'm afraid to make a build and buy 100c worth of items to boost Attack Speed and not getting the full results.

You are always getting a full result, but it's based on "base" value.

It's like (dmg, speed, whatever):
a) 100 dmg weapon
You are adding passive with: +10% increase dmg

100 + (100 * 10%) = 110 dmg

b) 100 dmg weapon, 10% increased dmg (from a))
You are adding another +10% dmg passive.

100 + (100 * 20%) = 120 dmg

Right?

10% increase is 10% increase from the base value
but only 120/110 = 9,09% in terms of real dmg increase.

Poe wiki
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Stat#Flat.2C_additive_and_multiplicative_stats

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raics escreveu:

10% increased damage has the same effect on your dps as 10% increased attack speed, both add 10% of your damage or attack speed base value.

However, the relative gain may differ depending on how much you previously invested. If you already got 300% increased damage taking another 10% will boost your dps by 2,5% and if you got 100% increased attack speed another 10% will net you 5% more dps. That's what I meant by natural diminishing returns.

"

Masharab escreveu:

You are always getting a full result, but it's based on "base" value.

It's like (dmg, speed, whatever):
a) 100 dmg weapon
You are adding passive with: +10% increase dmg

100 + (100 * 10%) = 110 dmg

b) 100 dmg weapon, 10% increased dmg (from a))
You are adding another +10% dmg passive.

100 + (100 * 20%) = 120 dmg

Right?

10% increase is 10% increase from the base value
but only 120/110 = 9,09% in terms of real dmg increase.

Poe wiki
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Stat#Flat.2C_additive_and_multiplicative_stats

Thank you, this is much clearer to me now. So basically there's diminishing return on all "% increased", but there's none on "% more"?

Also if a player has 100 % increases points to spend, it's better to equally spread it between both damage and attack speed rather than focusing on 1.

I think there sometimes are special diminishing returns for high attack and cast speed,

lag and input

When your atk and cast speed gets high enough, it is possible you can have reduced framerate due to all the spam you spew out, and it seems sometimes you get slightly reduced input capability when you lag and so you might fail to cast or attack at the advertised rate on your tooltip.

More laggy with spells yeah, both for self cast and coc.

For attacks, not so much, it's really good to have high attack speed with multistrike so that you don't get stuck too much in the same spot. And most of the attacks don't lag much unless they are linked to spells.


And yes to optimize dps you need to spread the investments in the different categories to optimize the final value.

You can increase your damage with:
- the base value, with steel rings for example (that's the reason howa is so strong, base value scales really well)
- the attack speed
- the increase %
- the crit chance and crit multi
- the penetration
- accuracy
- the more modifiers (including stuff like vulnerability, shock and all more from gems and keystones)

Not sure if I missed something.

More modifiers are a no brainer, the rest should be evenly spread.

It's a bit complicated though cause some stats are not available everywhere, the value differ quite a lot and the price too.

Path of building helps when you're not sure.

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Squirrel_of_doom escreveu:

Path of building helps when you're not sure.

Does Path of Building show the correct/useful DPS for Blade Flurry? I think ingame tooltip for Blade Flurry only show "average damage per 3 stacks" or something (total = 6 stacks), with no regard to varying attack speed at all. So it doesn't matter you have 1.4 attacks per second or 5.0 attacks per second, tooltip dps will be the same... That's why it's so hard for me to craft a cheap build on it right now...

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Blade_Flurry