[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

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Haadd escreveu:

Isn't Slayer clearly the best class for this build ATM? With Berserker's Rage stacks being kinda clunky I feel Slayer has the advantage here, specially with the new crit path through Overhelm. I made a brief build using a standard character and I've reached 41% crit chance with tidebreaker, and I was not even trying. I think with optimal gear we reach 50-60%, with massive double damage chance, ruthless and crit multiplier, one hit with this will blow everything up.

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Haadd escreveu:

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driiifter escreveu:

Maybe crit would need to be looked at as another build possibly? If you start going crit, you have to not take Resolute Technique, once you do that you start needing accuracy and then that opens up the build to a lot of changes or am I wrong?

The new accuracy nodes in weapons trees, Slayer's New Impact node and Precision aura are more than enough to ensure you have 90%+ accuracy. If you ask me, it's a more than worth trade off. Not mentioning that precision aura also gives you more critical chance. Not mentioning increased damage from critical strikes is equal to more stuns.

I have a section in the guide: "More Tips" - "Crit Version" talking about it and even proposed a template for a crit version (I added that yesterday).

The issue with crit builds, as I also stated there, is that it doesn't help in either map clearing or bossing.

For map clearing, we mostly want 3 things: attack speed, consistent high damage, and AoE range.

Since it's not too realistic to get close to 100% crit chance, introducing crit (say you get 400% multi, that's 400% damage) on top of double damage (200% damage), Ruthless (232% damage), Multistrike (200% damage), and Tidebreaker's naturally high damage range (300% damage) and Ryslatha's Coil (200% damage), you are looking at top damage being 200 times higher than your lowest damage. If we don't get 100% accuracy we also get occasional 0 damage attacks. During map clearing, this damage fluctuation translates to either not killing the pack or dealing huge trunks of overkill damage. So crit version leads to high DPS, but inconsistent damage output.

Going crit also inevitably results in lower attack speed and AoE range since you need to put your investments in crit instead.

For bossing, we mostly want 1 thing: consistency in stun locking. And having a damage range of 200 times is not a good way of assuring stun locking at all.

Overall, I agree that crit version has the benefit of having higher DPS - you can easily double your DPS by going crit. But I believe despite this higher DPS, going crit results in slower map clearing and a less safe bossing experience.

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evilmindcz escreveu:

How do you use molten shell/iron skill/IC now? I tried both manually launched or CWDT20, but neither does really solve the problem with ranged attacks for me... :-(

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driiifter escreveu:

The way to solve ranged attacks is just kill them quickly and/or leap slam into the ranged packs. Ranged stuff should take priority if you see it and you should be thinking of your ability to stunlock stuff as a defensive tool as well as offensive.

Pretty much so.

I also want to add that you may use your Molten Shell / Steelskin as well as your defensive flasks precautiously. What I found while playing this build is that experience and mindfulness greatly help our survival.

Our biggest layer of defense is stun, which you need to apply manually; then you have Guard skills and flasks, which you need to proc manually; then you may get Slayer leech which is passive.

Since you're playing a build using mostly active defensive mechanisms, as you play this build more, you will shift your playstyle to make use of our strengt (stuns) to cover up our weaker passive defense, and your tankiness goes up dramatically as the result.

EDIT: back to the CwDT setup question, I think you either do hand cast, or do a maybe around lvl 10 CwDT. I haven't tested this, but I think you need to find a sweet spot that CwDT triggers when you actually need it.

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driiifter escreveu:

The way to solve ranged attacks is just kill them quickly and/or leap slam into the ranged packs. Ranged stuff should take priority if you see it and you should be thinking of your ability to stunlock stuff as a defensive tool as well as offensive.

Well, i'm level 91 now, and there is no such thing as "kill quickly" against T15+ ranged legions... :-) Some of them (not sure about names, they have yellow star-like exploding attacks and offscreen yellow slowing dot) are just able to gunshot you dead while you leaping towards them. So far i took that instant warcry cluster (helps me survive a little longer to get in stun range), and i'm seriously thinking about some distracting summons, maybe just Herald instead of Flesh?

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evilmindcz escreveu:

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driiifter escreveu:

The way to solve ranged attacks is just kill them quickly and/or leap slam into the ranged packs. Ranged stuff should take priority if you see it and you should be thinking of your ability to stunlock stuff as a defensive tool as well as offensive.

Well, i'm level 91 now, and there is no such thing as "kill quickly" against T15+ ranged legions... :-) Some of them (not sure about names, they have yellow star-like exploding attacks and offscreen yellow slowing dot) are just able to gunshot you dead while you leaping towards them. So far i took that instant warcry cluster (helps me survive a little longer to get in stun range), and i'm seriously thinking about some distracting summons, maybe just Herald instead of Flesh?

It might be a good idea. It's not a big damage difference anyway.

Oh yeah +15 ranged legions, yeah that's top notch, I'm still leveling lol.

Well spoken though about crit; just for the sake of the build, not even thinking of the pros and cons of crit, I would just love to have attack speed over instead. Attack speed just makes everything feel better here.

Do you guys ever actively toggle blood/sand stance? I'm out of space on my hotkey bar so I just stay in blood stand all the time (so I have maim linked F&S and I feel like I'm wasting the link if I'm not in blood).

My active skills;
Walk - GS - Vaal GS
Blood Rage - Ancestral Warchief - Abyssal Cry - Molten Shell - Leap Slam

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Kapitolist escreveu:

Do you guys ever actively toggle blood/sand stance? I'm out of space on my hotkey bar so I just stay in blood stand all the time (so I have maim linked F&S and I feel like I'm wasting the link if I'm not in blood).

My active skills;
Walk - GS - Vaal GS
Blood Rage - Ancestral Warchief - Abyssal Cry - Molten Shell - Leap Slam

There is a possibility to make use of the "Walk" leftmouse button. I believe you can set your Vaal GS to that button, and make sure you don't set it to always attack in place. Then by pressing leftmouse button you will walk, but when you hold down shift, you will perform Vaal GS.

And I personally never switched to the Sand Stance. I had the skill bar slot, but I just never bothered switching. It might be because Slayer's AoE is more than enough already.

I barely even notice a point in being sand, so yeah, blood all the way seems okay. I've been sick of chugging mana pots so I just straight up turned an aura off for now.

Hi at all

I play this build first time in a league. So i have no idea about it :-)

I played a wi build 5 leagues and that was really tanky and had minor probs with all contend.

But in melee league i want to try something new. so i come to this build.

now my questions.

i die really often again the syndicate members. As they arent a problem till now, any tips to survive. til now i cast wi and wait til they die. But i cant stun them and the leech is not enought to survive.

the legion mobs often kill me from offscreen. I think its not only a problem with that build, but any tips ?

delve works really fine.

If we go for kaoms (IF i can afford one) we relay only on life. Is there a better choise? as Armour is changed in 3.7 the only really def mechanic is fortify and doging. or dont i oversee something?

freezing is a big problem for me. Is a anti freeze flask the only thing we can do ? (ocultist was freeze immun)

Would be verry happy to get tips to play this build the league. But if i cant stun something (this fucking roa wasnt a problem for me in any league. Now he killed me twice as it looks its stun immun ?!)

As i played a es build chaos dmg wasnt a problem. What to do against ? do you invest in some chaos res or only with flasks?

any advice is verry welcome. If the build works its really funny. but to die 4 times from offscreen mobs or syndicate members i dont know til now and isnt really funny.

thx for reading and perhaps answering.

Chill on the flask is mandatory and the syndicate members are countered very badly by bleeds. Link bleed support to the totem and run around it.

I played this build in Betrayal and I didn't find the Syn bosses that bad tbh, just gotta stay mobile at all times, speed on the boots and a Silver and Quicksilver flask is going to be utmost important.