[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

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hawleyyau escreveu:

Thanks for actually taking the time to consider my thoughts Bright, appreciate it :)

Here's another pastebin (after digesting your comments): https://pastebin.com/JrqV9dDy

Spoiler

1. Never realized the problem with landing the first hit (before enemies are actually taunted)... This forces me to get 300+ accuracy on 3 pieces of gear (bringing up my chance to hit to around 89%)

2. The endurance charges probably would be sustainable around 3 (could maybe get 1 from warcry at the start), since we get an additional 120% chance to crit if we haven't crit recently. Which means when we aren't critting, our crit chance gets boosted a fair bit (which would in turn let us have endurance charges)

3. Without the absurd amounts of life regen from GG gear, definitely facing problem sustaining even 2 siphoning charges. Especially with the lower base total life pool (when we focus on getting crit strike chance/crit multi from jewel slots instead of life). It's an intersting trade off, since if we stack life, we get higher life regen, and with that means we can use more siphoning charges. A weird situation where getting more life leads to more DPS.

4. Noticed getting an elder chest would give us +1% to (base) critical strike chance, and also % life regen. Quite handy.. it also has a +% of maximum life mod... which I didn't take (since that's not a necessity for the build). With those minimal stats (regen and +1.x% to base crit chance), those chests by themselves costs around a few exalts... A 6 linked Elder chest would be way more expensive (compared to a Kaoms).

5. We can also get the corrupted mod of up to "+1 to (base) critical strike chance" on our gloves as well. This lightens the load of trying to hit 50% crit chance from our other pieces of gear. Specifically, we aim for 50% crit chance because that gives us the biggest bonus from using a diamond flask.

6. I took a few more "increased stun duration" nodes from the tree and from our gear... with hopes that maybe that would improve the chain-stun possibility against Shaper? I also tried to get more attack speed (up to 3.0x), though its still a long ways off from the Beserker's 3.61/s attack rate unfortunately

Bright, would you be able to check the percentages of stunning Shaper again? I tried running your program, but wasn't too sure how to input the numbers :)

My comments this time:

1. Still not too convinced about endurance charge generation. It's possible to gain 1 charge at the start of the fight but it also takes time for at least 1 hit - so I'm not sure if it's worth it. There is only 10% chance to gain 1 charge on crit, even if you crit 100% of the times it takes an expectation value of 30 hits to gain 3 charges; now recall our attack speed and it's obviously too unreliable.

2. Diamond flask value does not peak at 50% crit chance. I performed some simple calculus calculations and found that for the crit multiplier you're aiming for (350% - 400%), Diamond flask offers the most DPS boost at around 35% crit chance. This however does not mean that you should aim for 35% crit chance either; it's just to show that the Diamond flask is not a valid reason to aim for 50% crit chance.

3. It's weird that some items you put up are on the weaker side (slot Ring 2, the Diamond Ring), and some items are close to not obtainable (chest, gloves).

4. With the new PoB data, I found that the stun-locking to death chances are 100% for Uber-Izaro (which is good, showing good stun duration), 98.8% for Guardians and 68% for Shaper. These numbers are pretty good in my opinion.

5. However, I do notice that the life pool dropped to 5.2k. This is too low especially for the budget you are aiming for. With this type of build you will inevitably take damage from time to time (especially elemental damage) and I suggest a minimum of 6k to 6.5k no matter how much physical mitigation you have.

Thanks Bright,

Redid the passive tree for the third time (and also experimenting with other variations, but to no success... e.g. Effigon + Sabo); Here's the pastebin (*subsequently modified - getting flat life regen is useless; please see below for version 2, based on attack speed): https://pastebin.com/vPe1L0Kw


Some observations:

1. Removed Crit chance/Crit Multi mods to get more life/life regen, and this build seems more realistic. Between 700k DPS (without flasks), and 1.5mil DPS (with flasks).

2. Put in three more "increased stun duration" nodes on the jewels, which should boost the chain-stun possibility, I think.

3. When the siphon charges aren't fully up, it seems like the character would have quite a decent amount of Life regeneration. On top of the life flask and block chance, this character should be quite a bit more durable than the original iteration of this variation.

4. Attack speed is quite low: at 2.84/s (that's one whole attack/second, slower when compared to Bright's Berserker)... This can be compensated by getting more jewels with increased attack speed (and/or even corrupting gloves with attack speed mods).

5. Alternatively, could try for increased #% critical strike chance on armour/gloves - would be a huge DPS boost (translating to about 100k added DPS for that one simple mod)

6. It was tough trying to balance resists, life, life regen, attack speed, Dex, and Int stats on all the items. Does put quite a heavy strain on the gear.

7. The body armour is probably the hardest piece of gear to get on this character.

8. The rest of the gear is much more conservative (i.e. not GG gear), but you also need quite a few specific mods on them (e.g. Dex/Int rolls)

9. Took away one accuracy mod on the gear pieces to trade for life regen - getting sufficient life regen is quite a balance. We lose about 60k DPS per siphon charge that we don't use... Might not be worth it to get that amount of Life regen on gear just to use siphoning charges I think - could stack attack speed instead. Here's the pastepin using gear with increased Attackspeed (instesad of flat life regen): https://pastebin.com/7mzxiV3J


Conclusion

10. Don't get flat life regen, it's not effective enough for us to gain enough life regen to sustain siphoning charges

11. Going attack speed means we only need to sustain 2 elder pieces of gear; Our staff and our armor. We need an elder body armour because we want the %increased maximum life.

As mentioned above, Ideally we would get added Crit chance on the gloves/elder body armor. A flat 1% increase to our base critical chance gives us about 110k DPS (with this version 2 attack speed variant). Quite a lot for this one stat.

12. Crit builds are expensive - can min/max the build by getting more crit chance/crit multi/attack speed - the more GG the gear, the stronger the character is (as opposed to going Resolute Technique - not much room to improve the DPS of the character)...

13. Going crit also gives us benefits to some ailments (freeze/ignite) against normal mobs and/or lower tiered bosses... Adds to the fun :)

Thanks again for your helpful insights Bright, I'm definitely on the course to building this character myself and have a feel for it. First, I have to start to farm currency to get a 6link Elder chest piece... That part is crucial to the build it seems xD


Shaped Channel maps, here I come

*Edit: I also noticed I didn't use the Redblade Tramplers for the 9% rEST... I probably would need to use these boots (though I absolutely detest them for their weak stats :\].... Wearing them would mean rebalancing those items again, putting even more strain and/or losing even more crit chance/crit multi...

From a pure DPS comparison, this variation is definitely weaker than Bright's original Berserker version - though arguably more defensive

-Stun Support corruption is not avalible as a corruption atleast what the poe wiki claims of what corruption a 2h mace can get

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LordDrikos escreveu:

-Stun Support corruption is not avalible as a corruption atleast what the poe wiki claims of what corruption a 2h mace can get

Yes. For years we have Stun Support corruption on 2-hand maces but they changed the corruption implicit list and removed Stun Support in patch 3.3, so basically at the beginning of this league.

Now Stun Support is no longer obtainable as a corruption implicit.

There are, however, a number of other good corruption implicits available. I will update the guide soon to show these changes.

Hey Bright,

After going through the PoB, I was thinking to stun-chain lock Shaper, perhaps I could experiment around using Abyssus? Afterall, once Shaper is stunned, we probably won't be taking damage anyway?

I know you're not a big fan of it, but 125% crit strike multiplier is just insane. Since with a staff build we get block chance and up to ~70% physical mitigation, would you think it's viable? I'll mess around with the PoB again to see what happens with a Abyssus.

Given that we apply physical mitigation first (before we trigger the Abyssus increased damage), it might become viable helm slot choice with a 6k life build?

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hawleyyau escreveu:

Hey Bright,

After going through the PoB, I was thinking to stun-chain lock Shaper, perhaps I could experiment around using Abyssus? Afterall, once Shaper is stunned, we probably won't be taking damage anyway?

I know you're not a big fan of it, but 125% crit strike multiplier is just insane. Since with a staff build we get block chance and up to ~70% physical mitigation, would you think it's viable? I'll mess around with the PoB again to see what happens with a Abyssus.

Given that we apply physical mitigation first (before we trigger the Abyssus increased damage), it might become viable helm slot choice with a 6k life build?

As you have said, I am not a big fan of Abyssus. There are only 2 exceptions when I would say an Abyssus can be a good choice for this build: on a Jugg character, or specifically when fighting Shaper.

So yes, I agree that when we are going all-in for the Shaper stunning business, Abyssus is a good choice.

But you need to know the downsides:

I do want to remind you that unless you're designing a character for Shaper farming - and only Shaper farming, you need to look at all the content you will be doing and make compromises for one or another. This means that, do not over-tune your stun build variation. A good break point is good Shaper performance with Abyssus on, and good mapping performance without Abyssus.

Greetings! I just wanted to say thank you very much for this build. I've followed this guide and have played this build in the HC leagues since Legacy, and I have loved it every single time.

I do have a question about corruptions: what would you say is the best corruption for our jewels? I've thought about the 5% increased damage and Cannot Be Maimed corruptions being the better ones to get, but I was curious as to your input?

Once again, thank you for this guide, Exile, and I eagerly await your response. :)

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40_Below_Summer escreveu:

Greetings! I just wanted to say thank you very much for this build. I've followed this guide and have played this build in the HC leagues since Legacy, and I have loved it every single time.

I do have a question about corruptions: what would you say is the best corruption for our jewels? I've thought about the 5% increased damage and Cannot Be Maimed corruptions being the better ones to get, but I was curious as to your input?

Once again, thank you for this guide, Exile, and I eagerly await your response. :)

I do have to look up the new corruption implicit list to have some idea of new corruptions. Before 3.3, corruptions on jewels were pretty trash, now they're still not too good, but it's better than nothing.

I would say the corrupted blood immunity seems more appealing to me. Maim also helps, but we can just Leap Slam if we're slowed by Maim.

The increased AoE also seems really good. I would always prefer 5% increased AoE over 5% increased damage.

It's not too realistic to pursue those corruption implicits on rare jewels, and I don't think it's rewarding enough to vaal these. So I guess we would mostly look for these implicits on the Weight of the Empire jewels.

You should suggest this build for build of the week. It would be a great idea!

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BeoWulf981 escreveu:

You should suggest this build for build of the week. It would be a great idea!

I once thought about submitting to build of the week, like half a year ago.

Didn't actually do so because this build was already not new, and doesn't look fancy and shiny. I believe most people who are interested in stunning have already seen this build already.