Lightning Golem Crescendo ♫ All Content / HC Focused / Not Casual-Friendly

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axelchen01 escreveu:

Thanks for the build. I plan to run a 8 Link Flame Golem 5 Link Cold + Stone Golem and 6 Link Lightning Golem 2+2+1+1+1 Setup.

Flame Golems for clear and Lightning Golems for boss killing. Maybe even change the setup to on the go.

As Frost Golems are basically melee i would love to apply EE and Ele Weakness via a cold spell.
But i would also love to apply my 20% shock via Beacon of Ruin. Is it worth to just accept 75% more light res for the shock with my multi golem Setup and dmg coming from many different sources?

Or should i just go with the 4 and 2 seconds, where all my dmg can Shock?
Sounds to be the best plan imho. But how to apply shock anyway with low crit and no regular shock chance?

Doing the power ranger golem build, eh? :) Yeah, the mini-Wrath aura messes it up for everybody. I'd say for convenience's sake, just accept the worse lightning damage, socket Lightning Penetration instead of Elemental Focus or Added Lightning, and consider using Shock Nova as your curser to boost your shock effect with Beacon. Maybe even 6-L the Ice Golems instead of Lightning.

If you don't mind playing around the occasional mini-Wrath, Yoke of Suffering (with Beacon) will allow you to shock with a cold spell at the expense of EHP and/or stun immunity.

I don't think it will be fun to change golem config on the go, since Stone/Ice/Chaos will end up getting overwritten, forcing you to re-cast them. And by that time, most bosses are already dead.

In the end, I feel like golems are a build that are more enjoyable the less you have to click.

Ice Golems as 6 link is suboptimal as i boost their melee skill along with stone golem.
Using this:

Never played Golem so far. Isn't there a special order what Golems get overwritten?
I would just do 3 FLame 1 Lightning for mapping and 3 Lightning 1 Flame for bosses. That's the maximum.
But i have to play fist anyway to see how it goes. Maybe 2+2 all the time is fine anyway.



But shock is only needed for high life endgame bosses anyway. So maybe beacon of ruin with some shock duration is good enough. Just use the extra bit dmg when it's there but don't focus on that.
What is the best Cold Spell for the Curse on Hit setup anyway? I don't play HC.

Glacial Cascade and / or Frost Bomb?

Interesting gloves you got there.

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axelchen01 escreveu:

Never played Golem so far. Isn't there a special order what Golems get overwritten?

Nah, it's pretty straightforward. Your oldest golems get overwritten first, regardless of type.

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But shock is only needed for high life endgame bosses anyway. So maybe beacon of ruin with some shock duration is good enough. Just use the extra bit dmg when it's there but don't focus on that.
What is the best Cold Spell for the Curse on Hit setup anyway? I don't play HC.

Glacial Cascade and / or Frost Bomb?

I'm going to assume you meant Cold Snap (since Frost Bomb has a really long delay before the actual hit). I think GC is better when mapping due to coverage. CS feels a bit (*cough*) snappier and has slightly better range - nicer for bossing. The difference isn't so big though. I think this one comes down to preference.

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Anakhon escreveu:

Hmm, i need to get used to LG I think (i can manage t15 easily with them)... but now i'm struggling with incursions actually, can't seem to be able to clean them in t12+...

Any tips ?

I'm using 5+1+1, with GMP/Pierce, but I'm thinking about switching to chain (for the storm orb), but don't know what to put instead of pierce or if I keep it.

edit: well, no actually, pierce is not worth with chain, since it's prevent it to trigger unless the projectile pierce 3 target...

edit2: lightning golems are really impressive actually when it comes to boss kill: 1min 49sec (+/- a few seconds) for a red elder which gave me a little gift:

Little summary of what I feel about lightning golems after a few hours playing with them:
- clearspeed is nice, different from FG (which I prefer tbh)
- boss kill is just amazing
- incursion are... complicated (didn't finished one so far above t12, even lower are failed half of the time)
- playstyle is very different (storm orbs)

Hey, just wondering if you had a chance to test any further, especially regarding Incursions. Since I'm skipping this league, I have to rely on a lot of second-hand info. Just based on some videos I saw, the league mechanics didn't seem ideal for a lot of minion builds.

Your comment made me wonder if it was more a problem with LGs only, or a problem faced by minion builds in general. Saw this thread on reddit recently that would seem to indicate the latter: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/90dfhz/golem_build_and_incursion_rooms/

(Also, I forgot to mention, chain doesn't work with the storm orb. The only reason to use it would be an alternative way to maximize the projectile/clearing.)

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New video added. Comparison with previous Uber Elder run:

New run: Defensive/hardcore-ish (youtu.be/P3UrdXWGlaA)
+ ~13.8K EHP (w/ MoM)
+ ~3m25s kill time
+ 11 jewel sockets
+ T2 rolls / non-legacy gear

~~~~~

Old run: Balanced/softcore-ish (youtu.be/GrbD8OrnZfo)
+ ~9.5K EHP (w/ MoM)
+ ~2m40s kill time
+ 14 jewel sockets
+ T2 rolls / non-legacy gear

The old run uses a full squad of 7 golems along with a regular Skin of the Loyal. I opted not to use my +2 Skin to make it more realistic, since you can't really expect +2 Skin to always be available on the market. The new run opts for a defensive shield along with a Regalia and only runs 6 golems.

Although the tests were done with Lightning Golems, similar times and EHP should be achievable with Flame Golems using an optimal setup/tree/jewels. All of the gear, although good, is as stated: non-legacy, basically T2 rolls or worse across the board. In other words, they're decent pieces, but all of it is stuff anybody can reasonably acquire in a 3-month league with some dedication/effort.

You can, of course, push more extremely in either direction (i.e. go for 15K+ EHP by sacrificing 2-3 jewels). But I think 10-15 jewels is basically the optimal range that hits a combination of efficient and easily pathable Life/ES nodes (6%+) vs. jewel slots before you start to feel diminishing returns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=25&v=4bng0YBVGuw
thoughts ? :D

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Gav7x escreveu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=25&v=4bng0YBVGuw
thoughts ? :D

Too big.
Doesn't have that cute waddle anymore.
Looks like it requires maintenance.

sigh... where's my wallet... :P

Primordial Harmony Damage Calculator updated with figures to include:

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re: Elementalist DPS
※ Overall, not much change unless you were running 5 concurrent golem types previously

※ If your golem setup was 5.1.1 before, your damage is about the same.

※ If your golem setup was 4.1.1.1 before, your damage is up about about 10%

※ Max DPS setup appears to be 7.1.1.1 or 6.1.1.1.1, with 8.1.1 pretty close behind


re: Necromancer DPS
※ All configurations perform about the same, whether you're 8.0 or 4.1.1.1.1

※ Decision on what config to run probably comes down to available gem slots rather than DPS numbers

※ Fair increase for multi-golem setups

※ Slight DPS drop if you only run a single type


My personal assessment
※ Excited to try this out on melee golems that benefit more from +MS

※ Not so much for caster golems (should be abusing auto-teleport instead of worrying about minion MS)

※ In general, the DPS boost is minor or non-existent. This probably isn't something I'd be willing to give up my amulet slot for. If you're willing to give up Presence for more DPS, just use Yoke of Suffering instead.

※ The Primordial Chain will probably help make mapping faster or at least more consistent.

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tomatopotato escreveu:

Primordial Harmony Damage Calculator updated with figures to include:

↓



re: Elementalist DPS
※ Overall, not much change unless you were running 5 concurrent golem types previously

※ If your golem setup was 5.1.1 before, your damage is about the same.

※ If your golem setup was 4.1.1.1 before, your damage is up about about 10%

※ Max DPS setup appears to be 7.1.1.1 or 6.1.1.1.1, with 8.1.1 pretty close behind



My personal assessment
※ Excited to try this out on melee golems that benefit more from +MS

※ Not so much for caster golems (should be abusing auto-teleport instead of worrying about minion MS)

※ In general, the DPS boost is minor or non-existent. This probably isn't something I'd be willing to give up my amulet slot for. If you're willing to give up Presence for more DPS, just use Yoke of Suffering instead.

※ The Primordial Chain will probably help make mapping faster or at least more consistent.

Feel free to correct me but this doesnt seem right to me.

I will argue from a position of 6 Golems as an elementalist, using victarios charity instead of a 7th Golem.

The standard settup for me in a somewhat budget build but most importantly life based with 8 harmonys.

I was using a 4-1-1 Settup, which means that the dps gain from Harmonys was 8 x 60% = 480% increased damage.

In this settup going to 3 additional golems at 35% less dmg per golem ( A different site had a better rolled one presented so it might even go to 30% less), would mean that the effective dps golems gain 1.75 Multiplier (4->7) and a 0.65 multiplier from the amulett for arguments sake.
This nets 13 % more damage roughly, in addition to move speed. Minion life is irrelevant for elementalists because they only care about phys damage and have generally more then enough life.

Additionally because of elementalist we gain 60% increased golem damage because 3 additional golems are summoned. so from 480% of harmonys + 120% of elementalist =600% to 660%%, thats a relative 10% more dmg increase.

So allready at just face value without adjusting golem distribution further we move to about 23% more damage for golems.

Lets compare an option that uses more golems for Harmony pushing.

Assuming 3-1-1-1.

First lets compare 3-1-1-1 to 4-1-1. 4 to 3 is a 25% less multiplier. While the gain of 8 x 20% of harmonys 160% increased addition.So from 600% to 760% is a 26% more multiplier.

Lets say for the sake of argument that 25% and 26% negate each other and drop other non quantifiable benefits of increased coverage of multiple golems. The damage difference between 3-1-1-1 and 4-1-1 in this settup is neglible.

Now. Going from 3 active dps golems to 6 is a 2.0 multiplier , amulett still a 0.65 malus = 30%more damage.
Additionally we gain again 60% increased damage due to 3 more golems on top of 760%increased damage. thats roughly 8% more damage.

A total of about 38% more damage.

Last example to check but I suspect it beeing worse then 38% but ignoring the benefits of insanely juiced up golem buffs of each different type.

3-1-1-1 to 2-1-1-1-1 is a 33% less multiplier from golem amount. Gain from harmonys is 760 % to 920% is roughly a 21% more multiplier. In total roughly a 20% less dmg multiplier.

Now going from 2 Main dps golems to 5 is a 2.5 multiplier. Amulett beeing 0.65 and the change of 3 to 2 main dps golems is 0.8
Makes in total EXACTLY 30 % more damage.

Now we add 60% increased again to the 920%, a relative gain of 6.5%

So in total 36.5% more damage. Still very sizable.

So between 38% more damage and 6 aktive dps golems and 1 golem buff missing or 5 aktive dps golems and having all golems buffs. Or in more sizable terms:
38% more dmg, or 36.5% and about 12% physical dmg reduction of the chaos golem (4% base buffed up by elementalists 25% inc buff effect per aktive golem).



Unless im making some huge error this seems to be quite sizable for any life based golem build.

I agree though that for low life versions chayulas presence is allmost to important to give up so it is not clear cut.

But for a budget or just life based version, this amulett seems insane from what i can see.

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Tyranastrasz escreveu:

Feel free to correct me but this doesnt seem right to me.

Hey, thanks for the feedback. I actually assumed (mistakenly) that the Less Damage multiplier was static on the Amulet, as the one I saw was 40%. It's getting pretty late for me and I didn't even realize the one I linked was 36% =.=

That does change the numbers quite a bit. I went ahead and added a variable box so people can adjust the value of the Less Multi.

Going to bed for now, but I'll take a closer look at your reply this weekend.

Thanks!

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Tyranastrasz escreveu:

I was using a 4-1-1 Settup, which means that the dps gain from Harmonys was 8 x 60% = 480% increased damage.

In this settup going to 3 additional golems at 35% less dmg per golem ( A different site had a better rolled one presented so it might even go to 30% less), would mean that the effective dps golems gain 1.75 Multiplier (4->7) and a 0.65 multiplier from the amulett for arguments sake.
This nets 13 % more damage roughly, in addition to move speed. Minion life is irrelevant for elementalists because they only care about phys damage and have generally more then enough life.

Additionally because of elementalist we gain 60% increased golem damage because 3 additional golems are summoned. so from 480% of harmonys + 120% of elementalist =600% to 660%%, thats a relative 10% more dmg increase.

So allready at just face value without adjusting golem distribution further we move to about 23% more damage for golems.

After modifying the calculator to allow for a variable Less Dmg Multi with P.Chain, I'm seeing an overall ~23% DPS boost as well when setting P.Chain at 35% instead of 40% Less Dmg:

30.2x → 37.1x (+22.8%)

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Lets compare an option that uses more golems for Harmony pushing.

Assuming 3-1-1-1.

First lets compare 3-1-1-1 to 4-1-1. 4 to 3 is a 25% less multiplier. While the gain of 8 x 20% of harmonys 160% increased addition.So from 600% to 760% is a 26% more multiplier.

Lets say for the sake of argument that 25% and 26% negate each other and drop other non quantifiable benefits of increased coverage of multiple golems. The damage difference between 3-1-1-1 and 4-1-1 in this settup is neglible.

Now. Going from 3 active dps golems to 6 is a 2.0 multiplier , amulett still a 0.65 malus = 30%more damage.
Additionally we gain again 60% increased damage due to 3 more golems on top of 760%increased damage. thats roughly 8% more damage.

A total of about 38% more damage.

I'm seeing similar numbers from my end here as well:

27.45x → 38.025x (+38.5%)

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Last example to check but I suspect it beeing worse then 38% but ignoring the benefits of insanely juiced up golem buffs of each different type.

3-1-1-1 to 2-1-1-1-1 is a 33% less multiplier from golem amount. Gain from harmonys is 760 % to 920% is roughly a 21% more multiplier. In total roughly a 20% less dmg multiplier.

Now going from 2 Main dps golems to 5 is a 2.5 multiplier. Amulett beeing 0.65 and the change of 3 to 2 main dps golems is 0.8
Makes in total EXACTLY 30 % more damage.

Now we add 60% increased again to the 920%, a relative gain of 6.5%

So in total 36.5% more damage. Still very sizable.

Hmm... something's off here. I'm showing a far larger increase going from 2.xyzα to 5.xyzα, around +72% actually. I believe factoring "33% less multiplier from golem amount" is inaccurate, since the goal is to look at an overall increase of 2 to 5, which doesn't care about comparing to a 3.xyzα setup.

Not that it matters in the big picture. This actually strengthens your overall point, as these are all significant boosts to DPS that clearly outstrip Yoke of Suffering.

Thanks for pointing out the huge oversight on my end! If the lower bound of the Less Multi ends up being 30%, it may be too good to pass up, even for Hybrid or LL builds. If it's lower than 30%, I may start questioning GGG's sanity :P

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I will argue from a position of 6 Golems as an elementalist, using victarios charity instead of a 7th Golem.

P.S. Victario's isn't really helping that much with only 8x Harmony. Please check out page 2 in the Google Docs calculator.