[3.10] S3 || Stag's Soulwrest Summoner || Streaming and updating to 3.11 || Videos

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odd escreveu:

I have a question regarding the chaos version - is the Vis Mortis + elemental Triad Grip better than full chaos conversion through 4 white socketed Triads? I've tried to pob some numbers, but can't get the conversion of damage to work on minions.

I'm not completely sure, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'd say the elemental version + vis mortis would probably be better.

4 green Triad use hatred instead of pride and Cold to fire instead of brutality. Luckily this version would be easy, and cheap, to test.

The other version that comes to mind would be just using the added chaos gem, and using a 4 white triad grip. Much more expensive. I'm also unsure what you'd replace pride with. Probably a blasphemy despair + temp chains.

some napkin math. I suck at conversion math. I'm unsure when "minion damage" kicks in. Probably at the end like generic "elemental damage" for normal builds.

assuming the minions did ~760 base physical damage average. Assume 20% ctf gem.

option 1:
triad converts all to cold.
hatred adds 25% physical as extra added cold - 950 cold damage.
ctf, converts 50% cold to fire. 29% cold as extra fire -- quality 10% cold dmg, 10% fire damage.

cold damage increases apply. hatred 18%, ctf 10%.

minions deal 1228 cold -- save number

Vis Mortis Max roll adds 20% chaos, 1228k cold 245 chaos

29% cold as extra fire. -- 356 fire.
50% cold convert to fire -- 614 cold 970 fire 245 chaos.

I think fire damage comes in here

(unsure if it's fire damage and minion damage)

614 cold 1067 fire 245 chaos

Vis Mortis on the fire, adds 213 chaos.

614c,1067f,458C

total combined ~2140 depending on rounding.

Vis Mortis also has another 15% minion damage to account for.

Option 2:

added chaos gem 212 avg dmg, 10% chaos damage

so 972. With another 10% chaos damage.

Despair would have to give you 200% damage for it to be the same combined dps. However, you are dealing with a single damage type as opposed to three. You also have another option for body armor. Envy could be another expensive amulet option. The Mind of the council would also buff this greatly with void gaze.

Somebody please correct my napkin where I'm wrong.

I'm most probably wrong with the %increases and reductions.

In the worst case completely definitely wrong ctf scenario.
760c --> hatred --> 950c --> ctf --> 475c 750f --> vis --> 475c 750f 245C
still at 1470 combined damage.

Thanks for a detailed response.

I was running 4G Triads, with Hypothermia instaed of Brutality, EE and Frostbite.

Got lucky with temple corruption yesterday, so I've compared the damage on Necro (no Vis Mortis), and your calculations are quite right, I think. There are more ways to scale ele dmg and add chaos on top, than to scale pure chaos, it seems.

Occultist, Wither totems, blasphemy Despair, and not much else (Envy is too expensive for me to consider). On the other hand going Occu means losing quite a lot of qol of Necro - offerings, minion dmg and speed etc. I don't know if it's worth it or not.

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Stagsnetti escreveu:

Spoiler

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odd escreveu:

I have a question regarding the chaos version - is the Vis Mortis + elemental Triad Grip better than full chaos conversion through 4 white socketed Triads? I've tried to pob some numbers, but can't get the conversion of damage to work on minions.

I'm not completely sure, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'd say the elemental version + vis mortis would probably be better.

4 green Triad use hatred instead of pride and Cold to fire instead of brutality. Luckily this version would be easy, and cheap, to test.

The other version that comes to mind would be just using the added chaos gem, and using a 4 white triad grip. Much more expensive. I'm also unsure what you'd replace pride with. Probably a blasphemy despair + temp chains.

some napkin math. I suck at conversion math. I'm unsure when "minion damage" kicks in. Probably at the end like generic "elemental damage" for normal builds.

assuming the minions did ~760 base physical damage average. Assume 20% ctf gem.

option 1:
triad converts all to cold.
hatred adds 25% physical as extra added cold - 950 cold damage.
ctf, converts 50% cold to fire. 29% cold as extra fire -- quality 10% cold dmg, 10% fire damage.

cold damage increases apply. hatred 18%, ctf 10%.

minions deal 1228 cold -- save number

Vis Mortis Max roll adds 20% chaos, 1228k cold 245 chaos

29% cold as extra fire. -- 356 fire.
50% cold convert to fire -- 614 cold 970 fire 245 chaos.

I think fire damage comes in here

(unsure if it's fire damage and minion damage)

614 cold 1067 fire 245 chaos

Vis Mortis on the fire, adds 213 chaos.

614c,1067f,458C

total combined ~2140 depending on rounding.

Vis Mortis also has another 15% minion damage to account for.

Option 2:

added chaos gem 212 avg dmg, 10% chaos damage

so 972. With another 10% chaos damage.

Despair would have to give you 200% damage for it to be the same combined dps. However, you are dealing with a single damage type as opposed to three. You also have another option for body armor. Envy could be another expensive amulet option. The Mind of the council would also buff this greatly with void gaze.

Somebody please correct my napkin where I'm wrong.

I'm most probably wrong with the %increases and reductions.

In the worst case completely definitely wrong ctf scenario.
760c --> hatred --> 950c --> ctf --> 475c 750f --> vis --> 475c 750f 245C
still at 1470 combined damage.

Wow... And here I thought, I already did ele conversion, let's try that phys style. Thank you for planting another idea in my mind. Haven't done any of that multi converion stuff up until now, why not start on minions :D

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odd escreveu:

Thanks for a detailed response.

I was running 4G Triads, with Hypothermia instaed of Brutality, EE and Frostbite.

Got lucky with temple corruption yesterday, so I've compared the damage on Necro (no Vis Mortis), and your calculations are quite right, I think. There are more ways to scale ele dmg and add chaos on top, than to scale pure chaos, it seems.

Occultist, Wither totems, blasphemy Despair, and not much else (Envy is too expensive for me to consider). On the other hand going Occu means losing quite a lot of qol of Necro - offerings, minion dmg and speed etc. I don't know if it's worth it or not.

One other thing, if you use hypothermia also consider skitterbots. One of them chills enemies in an aura and it'll help out chilling bosses/tanky rares

Hi, im pretty new but is the EK in the gem setup in PoB simulate all of phatasm damage or just 1 of them? Thank you

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Kehaaaaaan escreveu:

Hi, im pretty new but is the EK in the gem setup in PoB simulate all of phatasm damage or just 1 of them? Thank you

hey, that's per phantasm.
With a lvl 21 summon phantasm gem you'll have 21 phantasms,
gem level --> phantasms
20-17 --> 20
16-13 --> 19
12-10 --> 18

and so on

Once again, this build is a blast to play through and through. Maybe the best thing about it though, is how customizable it is.

I started mapping just stacking minion damage; it worked. Later I transitioned to a mapping setup with rampage and haste; it worked. Now I am aiming for max block and stacking other defenses; works too. You can pretty much tailor the build to your exact needs.

I really wanted to try for some multi converion shenanigans and use the new vis mortis to full effect. Turns out, with vis mortis your life total is really low. Using spirit offering for a higher ES pool and going MoM/EB leaves you with good ehp but not much migitation. While damage on paper is great, it is not needed at all and survivability goes down considerably. I see no reason to go for more damage. PoB can't calculate my damage, because of the conversion gloves. I insta-phase shaper, though, so I guess its somewhere between 2 and 3 million shaper dps even without further conversion.

General notes while playing to end game:
- Dancing Dervish is a nice leveling weapon until you can get a soulwrest. After that I used Flesh and Spirit to get rampage
- Every gear piece is off color for me. Save yourself some chroms and use the jeweller method to get the needed colors
- It doesn't matter if you go physical, elemental or convert. Damage is more than enough at any stage of the game.
- Up until guardians I was running zombies, carrion golem, vaal skelletons and spectres in the same tabula, with only feeding frenzy as a damage support.
- Spectres are neat. I prefer Host Chieftain (power charges), Stygian Silverback (frenzy charges), Undying Evengalists (proxy bubble)
- Intuitive Leap above witch start and Might of the Meek next to the scion life cluster is a cheap way to set up defensives.
- Devouring Diadem is just insane for this build (as it is in general, imo)

A quick recap of stats: 6k life; 95% attack avoidance; 90% spell avoidance; 3 auras; 3 vaal skills; aaspect of the avian; over 30 minions (over 60 with vaal skellies)

Thank you again Stag, for this wonderful guideline to Soulwrest!

Heey Stag,

I enjoyed the style of your build so much - to watch the phantasms guzzle like pyranhas your enemies and let them burn.

Then I tried to combinate your build with the 10 skeleton mages of the dead reckoning jewel, because there a so many skill support gems shared for both ranged skellies and phantasms.

In the defensives I went the very tanky road, because damage is more than needed to t16 maps. With brass dome, max armour and molten shell of 8000 / vaal 30000 damage reduction and a lot of auras, curses, fortify in flasks with hardened scars on the amulet, and block. Also the new withering step is really nice to add on the left mouse and hungry loops for additional spectres and meat shield zombies.

For me, as a not experienced gamer (and not native english speaker, sorry for some funny english in this post :-) ) I want to ask you for a look on my build and perhaps for more optimizations when you want to.


https://pastebin.com/5MLwKxkk

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Chromino escreveu:

Heey Stag,

I enjoyed the style of your build so much - to watch the phantasms guzzle like pyranhas your enemies and let them burn.

Then I tried to combinate your build with the 10 skeleton mages of the dead reckoning jewel, because there a so many skill support gems shared for both ranged skellies and phantasms.

In the defensives I went the very tanky road, because damage is more than needed to t16 maps. With brass dome, max armour and molten shell of 8000 / vaal 30000 damage reduction and a lot of auras, curses, fortify in flasks with hardened scars on the amulet, and block. Also the new withering step is really nice to add on the left mouse and hungry loops for additional spectres and meat shield zombies.

For me, as a not experienced gamer (and not native english speaker, sorry for some funny english in this post :-) ) I want to ask you for a look on my build and perhaps for more optimizations when you want to.


https://pastebin.com/5MLwKxkk

Hey, Sorry for the late reply - holiday season and all that. You have quite a few issues with this build. here's a short list, and I'm sure I missed some. I'm sorry if I sound too harsh:

1. You have a very small life pool. 3.5k hp is too low, with mom you are at 4k max. You will die a lot, especially if you don't have much experience in red maps.

2. You have not met your dexterity requirements, and have nowhere to fix it. I'll also add in -- do not plan for lvl 95.

3. The Brass dome is bad (the block reduction is not worth building around) and try only use one hungry loop (if you really must add it to the build). The loss of stats from two hungry loops + devouring diadem + dome is pretty big.

4. Phantasms cast a physical spell, skele mages cast an elemental spell. There isn't that much that overlaps between them. Plus they do the same thing in a build. One would be redundant.

5. Summon holy relic is bad, as is chance to flee.

6. Vulnerability is not used at all with the mages (they only deal elemental damage). Vaal molten shell won't help you much, nor withering step (because you don't have any chaos damage), Frost sentinals are redundant again.

7. You have 8 vaal skills. Drop pretty much all of them - especially vaal arc. I'd just stick with vaal summon skellys.

8. Your summons do almost no damage. The best defense is usually killing everything. If it takes 1 minute to kill something, you need 1 minute worth of defenses, if it takes you a second you only need to survive for a second.

9. The way you have set up the gem links make both the phantasms weaker and the skellys weaker. Your specters and zombies are also kind of redundant.

Spell echo also doesn't work for phantasms


You are just trying to do too much.

Jack of all trades master of none. Poe is generally a game of specializing in one thing. Zombie builds specialize in zombies, tornado shot on ts and so on. It is pretty rare you can combine two or three concepts really well.

https://pastebin.com/iU5k4P8U is what I came up with quickly. [Phantasms + Skellys]

I converted the phantasms damage to elemental, so phantasms + mages do [spell] [projectile] [elemental] together.

I removed most of the "generally" inefficient things

Use phantasms for clear, keep up bone offering, pop death mark on bosses then vaal skelly should melt it.

if you do decide to go the brass dome + molten shell, I'd be interested to hear how it goes.

Hello Stag,

thank you very much for so much good input and optimizations. And I have to try all the nice points and options you marked in the setup.

I am changing every some maps some points of the build and look also a bit on the soulwrest lvl 100 BlightKun

https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/INNIsb/BlightKUN?i=0&search=item%3DSoulwrest%2CThe-Devouring-Diadem

Now I changed with the triad gloves (white sockets) to chaos and cold. Triad grip mesh gloves and the divine flesh glorious vanity jewel instead of MoM are new. As guardian skill I changed to Bone Armour for the minions who died before too fast by some bosses and lost too much damage resumming and molten shell on cwdt for surprises damage spikes and vaal molten shell for some bosses and encounters.

Skeleton Mages are now more for utility than for the damage - that are the phantasms works. Both work fine with projectile weakness curse. Phantasms with wither and withered step damage buffs with white sockets of triad grips.

1 yes. But with 90% physical damage reduction I am never 1-shot. But there is too less life to improve really so that is really bad and I would love to get more. But then I would have to change body armour and rings, amulet, jewels and gloves I think. But to tank almost only with damage mitigation have lot of disadvantages.

2 I use 1 jewel for it (int to dex or str to dex) Grace and Gmps are at lvl 20/21 maxed with the cost of this one slot in the passives.

3 Yes, but irrationally I like this kind of build with physical reduction and armor. I took too much physical one shots before while levelling.

4 yes, damage is from phantasms. It's more aesthetic, lol, with disco lights and ignited enemies from the elemental damage and some debuffs with jewels (hinder, blind, ignite, etc.).
But the projectile weakness curse works for both, phantasms and skelleton mages i hope.

5 yes, and I didn't used it. I don't hit and I channel only, so it don't work. I don't know why it is in pastebin, perhaps because I used it before while levelling with arc and saved the build with pathofbuilding.
With character named Sofiaya in my profil it is actual.
https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Chromino/characters

6 changed to projectile weakness. Another naiv question, is maim support with the spectres or carrion golem working as movement speed debuff of bosses?

7 I had tried 3 vaal skills- vaal molten shell, skeletons, grace. Now 2, skeletons and molten shell. 3 is too much, are 2 okay ore too much? Don't know why pastebin is showing 8.

8 yes, so in this setup it is a mass summoner and a not optimal jack of all trades like you wrote. I would like to change spectres and carrion golem in more usesfull. Zombies are not bad as meat shield tank utility I think ( - - - for example the phoenix guardian I can only tank while the Zombies are up with meat shield, minion life, elemental army, fortify support in the hungry loop)?

The build is working on lvl 96 (95 before working too), only ueber elder and some double bosses in misfit map are a problem. It can tank minotaurier, hydra, delve lvl 180 etc.

So much different options on a fine satisfying build. It's the most fast and funny build in poe I know so far.

:-)