👻3.20👻 Kay's Summoner💥SRS Bomber💀Poison SRS💀Melee SRS🕷️Spiders💀Skeleton Mages

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Aijendo escreveu:

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Finefinchfailer escreveu:

Hey all, decided to try the carrion golem build and im really enjoying it. But also one question popped up in my mind when i started to look for upgrades. Its about the chest options, so far ive been using the Skin of the Lords which has been working okay i think, but if i upgraded to Astral plate with +2 gems and some Life would this be an uprade or downgrade? I get this is an aegis aurora build so if i used astral plate will i get more overall armor for that? :)

Skin of the Lords is good for pure ES but not so good for Armour imho
and you have No Life, Resis, +100% Defense is not 2x Defense Value.
You can check it for yourself easily with PoB

When I played Carrion Golem this League i used the Chest my Guardian is wearing atm, +1 Socketed int gems (Golem is Int Gem), + 1 Socketed active skill gems (also Golem is an active Gem) = a +2 Level Chest

+35% Lightning Resis +12% All Res , an open Prefix for +85 Max Life

I payed a month ago like 4 Ex

+2 Level Chest:
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Archnemesis/o2oP5E4sl

I personally think Skin of the Lords is pretty unbeatable, atleast for crafted body armours. Skin of the Lords gives +2 to all skills in the chest, that includes support gems aswell.

If you're running x5 dmg modifiers each level is ~1% more damage. So that's 10 extra levels meaning 10% more dps. It also allows you to run an Empower4 granting you +5 to levels to any socketed skill gem. This can be exceptionally strong, especially if your golems are below level 30. However, after level 30 levels to skill gems start getting diminishing returns and instead of granting 10% more dmg per level, they only get 5%.

For damage, Skin of the Lords is always much stronger than a psuedo +2 crafted rare chest.

The next comparison is defenses.
The benefit of running a rare chest is that you can get resistances and life from it. The benefit of Skin of the Lords is the 100% increase to global modifiers which is a big deal, especially if you don't run any %increased armour in your skilltree. If you have no %increased armour on your gear or tree, 100% increased global defenses is a straight up doubling of your armour.
Most people run some %increased armour from things like flasks or combat stamina et.c. so usually it provides around 60-70% more armour.

Not to mention that it doubles your ES and Evasion values. If you run a double defensive aura combination like I do with both Grace and Determination, Skin of the Lords is pretty unbeatable. Maybe a fractured Grasping Mail is better?
But the +2 to levels is very hard to beat.

Finally, Skin of the Lords also allows you to get a free Keystone node which potentially can add to your build or atleast save skillpoints.
Unfortunately, Keystone nodes are pretty garbage for minion builds. But things like Magebane, Solipsism, Iron Reflexes, Unwavering Stance et.c. could all be nice additions to a build.

I wish there were more Keystone options lucrative to Minion builds in this game though.

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

For damage, Skin of the Lords is always much stronger than a psuedo +2 crafted rare chest.

Well those 248M DPS look impressive, I just ask myself, why are you the only Elementalist on Poe.Ninja playing Golem + Skin of the Lords then?

You use the Hydrosphere + Melee Splash bug for sure.

Have you found the holy grail or are we just missing something?

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

For damage, Skin of the Lords is always much stronger than a psuedo +2 crafted rare chest.

Well those 248M DPS look impressive, I just ask myself, why are you the only Elementalist on Poe.Ninja playing Golem + Skin of the Lords then?

You use the Hydrosphere + Melee Splash bug for sure.

Have you found the holy grail or are we just missing something?

First of all, golems are not very meta right now so there aren't many Golem players to begin with. Most people just follow standardized build templates and are pretty inexperienced with making builds so they just play pure phys necromancers. It's kinda the norm.

Why am I the only Elementalist? Probably because everyone is playing pure phys, which I believe is objectively worse at higher budgets (Less scaling options).
My build has always been a necromancer, only this league did I discover that Elementalist is better due to the new forbidden jewels(+2 to minion levels).

I also was a necromancer until 3 days ago. After doing some PoBing I discovered that Elementalist potentially was much better for my build. Especially since I'm cold I could get an extra 25% cold pen with Mastermind of Discord. Ontop of that, +2 Golems and 250% golem buff effect just gives more damage than what necros are given.

Also, I can now run a Stone Golem for 1300 life regen which means I can swap out my life flask for a Bottled Faith for 10% more dps and extra regen for minions. Put a 2.5k elemental shield from Elemental Bulwark on top of that and it's Elementalists clearly are superior imo.

But that's only for elemental conversion minions. Pure phys is probably better run as a Necromancer still. Not sure though cause I haven't done the numbers.

Yes, I'm running Hydrosphere and melee splash in my build.
If I swap Melee Splash for Predators and remove the 100% more multi from the Hydrosphere cleave I end up at 194 million instead.
But there's no reason to make that change this league.
Abusing Hydrosphere simply provides the best single target and clear speed at the same time. Hopefully GGG makes minions trigger the 1 sec CD on hydrosphere next league so I can drop it from my build.

Have I found the holy grail? Well, I just think people have been missing out and are too one dimensional in their build design and customizations. I'm not running cold minions because I like cold. I'm simply running cold because It's the best. I've tried to PoB minmax phys and lightning(Doryanis) too. It simply can't reach the same numbers. If phys was the best, my build would be a phys minion build.

But yeah, I kinda feel people are missing out. During league starts I see all these nostalgia driven Carrion Golem players who want to build pure phys Aura stackers spend hundreds of Chaos on dual wielding Cold Iron Points while throwing away thousands of fusing to 6-link their body armours to end up with a squishy league starter that does ~3 million dps.

Meanwhile, I cleared my entire Atlas and all Maven invitations (including the Feared) in 2 days on a 4 ex budget. By that point my build had 28 million dps and was relatively tanky with the most expensive item being a Skin of the Lords that I bought for 50 chaos. My day 2 league starting Carrion Golem build literally had more dps than alot of other peoples endgame Golem builds (Granted, they are probably way tankier than I was though).

This would probably change alot of my way to make Carrions would become mainstream though. The only reason I was able to cruise through the early game so easily is because my way to build summoners is non-meta so I could get alot of items very cheaply.

Hi could you link the Pob or send it
4 ex budget and 24m dps that's kinda very sick :O

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JuhlDk escreveu:

Hi could you link the Pob or send it
4 ex budget and 24m dps that's kinda very sick :O

I'm way past my old setup and my PoB has unfortunately been updated constantly so I don't really have info on what I used before. :(

All I got is my 3.16 budget PoB which I followed briefly but it's very outdated with alot of things that are wrong or different from what I would recommend now.

This is how the 3.16 version looked:
https://pastebin.com/Y3KyV7V0

But as I said, I've made alot of changes to it and some info is wrong there like Frigid Roar from Crushclaws being counted at 50% when it should be 20%.

Today I would recommend many new uniques like the buffed Legacy of Fury, Ashes of the Stars and putting AG in hungry loop et.c.

I'll see if I can update the PoB to a proper low budget version.
Most of this league has mostly been experimenting for me to try out the new items and some interesting mechanics.

248M is a nice number from POB, but the real DPS is much lower if you use mass melee minions because there's a limit to number of minions can hit a boss at one time (hit box problem).

Even a normal Carrion build with just zombies for the carrion's buff. If you look at my Golem video, I highlight one of them but actually 2 are doing nothing: https://youtu.be/w_Oxp3_HqeM?t=300

If you look at AW and DB videos, you can see many minions doing nothing in boss fights. Same for skele warrior videos etc.

This problem has been in the game for a long time.

Edit: non targetable minions are ok though (eg spiders). they can all hit the boss at once.

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kayella escreveu:

248M is a nice number from POB, but the real DPS is much lower if you use mass melee minions because there's a limit to number of minions can hit a boss at one time (hit box problem).

Even a normal Carrion build with just zombies for the carrion's buff. If you look at my Golem video, I highlight one of them but actually 2 are doing nothing: https://youtu.be/w_Oxp3_HqeM?t=300

If you look at AW and DB videos, you can see many minions doing nothing in boss fights. Same for skele warrior videos etc.

This problem has been in the game for a long time.

Edit: non targetable minions are ok though (eg spiders). they can all hit the boss at once.

Yup, this is a problem against smaller bosses. Since minions don't have phasing they tend to bodyblock eachother alot and the burst gets kinda scuffed.
Against very tanky targets that can survive for a couple of seconds like giga juiced Olroths or 100% delirius metamorphs with the atlas tree and sextant, the minions will take sometime but then lineup perfectly in a circle and hit the target.

Monster hitboxes can fit most minions if they're given time to orient themselves, but this is largely dependant on the model of the target. But the initial seconds is just a large clusterfuck where everything just bodyblocks eachother. It's basically like they're waiting in queue to hit the target. Against smaller targets it literally becomes impossible for all minions to hit it which is a shame.

I wish there was a skillpoint in the tree or some option to give minions perma phasing :-)

I've found that the best solution to help minions prevent bodyblocking and congregate efficiently around a target is with Predator. If you run predator on all minions they will surround the target and stick to it very efficiently. Works very well against big targets. Against smaller ones though, there's not enough space for all of them to fit.

I wish I could run ranged minions again to accompany my Carrions and Skellies but outside of Skeletons Mages, all ranged minions are literal garbage tuning wise. Spectres are undertuned, and so is things like Lightning pr Fire Golems.

The only minions with half decent dps numbers right now are Skeletons cause they have a 50% dmg multiplier built into the gem basically acting like an extra 1.5 links for them. Same thing for Golems since they recieve 50% more dmg with 10 nearby friendly monsters. Eventhough Carrions have recieved flat dps nerfs like 5 times in a row, they're still one of the best melee minions cause of the 50% dmg modifier.

Zombies are also pretty good, but they require feeding frenzy to even attack a target (or predator) so they lose out alot of damage there. Their AI is also very bad and their the minions with the biggest problem when it comes to bodyblocking eachother and just staying around.

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

Why am I the only Elementalist? Probably because everyone is playing pure phys, which I believe is objectively worse at higher budgets (Less scaling options).
My build has always been a necromancer, only this league did I discover that Elementalist is better due to the new forbidden jewels(+2 to minion levels).

I think phys build is probably focusing on survivability. Damage scaling stops early but it's also easier to overwhelm all of boss's phys damage reduction. So then you can focus on defensive layers and become almost immortal :)

Ele is better for damage scaling for any builds and Cold is always best because of hatred scaling as well as chill/freeze/shatter.

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Aijendo escreveu:

Well those 248M DPS look impressive, I just ask myself, why are you the only Elementalist on Poe.Ninja playing Golem + Skin of the Lords then?

You use the Hydrosphere + Melee Splash bug for sure.

Have you found the holy grail or are we just missing something?

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

...
-Long Answer I don't want to repeat-
...
Have I found the holy grail? Well, I just think people have been missing out and are too one dimensional in their build design and customizations. I'm not running cold minions because I like cold. I'm simply running cold because It's the best. I've tried to PoB minmax phys and lightning(Doryanis) too. It simply can't reach the same numbers. If phys was the best, my build would be a phys minion build.

But yeah, I kinda feel people are missing out.

First thanks for the comprehensive answer and explaining your build to others.

When I saw those 248M I thought WTF, this must be fake.

Because Skeleton Mages are the Meta Build in Archnemesis League.

YouTuber Von Vikton:
Skeleton Mages Necromancer Final Build Guide Update for 3.17 - Min Max'd Version! 40 Million DPS //https://youtu.be/aDpuv2bbtI4?t=2

On Minute 1:00 "Once you go Skele Mage you never gonna go back, every other build feels like..."

Von Vikton spend 200ex to reach up to 40M DPS with Skele Mages

and then you come around with a Niche /non Meta Build claiming 248M DPS,
well that are 208M DPS Difference.

Like Kayella mentioned those Numbers are just on paper due to bodyblock and Melee, those guys have to reach the target first.

But anyway, thanks for the wall of text, it was interesting to read and another build I could check out some time.

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kayella escreveu:

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

Why am I the only Elementalist? Probably because everyone is playing pure phys, which I believe is objectively worse at higher budgets (Less scaling options).
My build has always been a necromancer, only this league did I discover that Elementalist is better due to the new forbidden jewels(+2 to minion levels).

I think phys build is probably focusing on survivability. Damage scaling stops early but it's also easier to overwhelm all of boss's phys damage reduction. So then you can focus on defensive layers and become almost immortal :)

Ele is better for damage scaling for any builds and Cold is always best because of hatred scaling as well as chill/freeze/shatter.

I'm not sure if Phys really is better surviabilitywise though.
The only thnig I can think of is that non-phys builds are required to run Skitterbots with Bonechill which is ~42% mana reservation without reservation efficiency. Pure phys builds wouldn't run this and therefore could fit a different defensive Aura like a Purity of Ice Aure et.c. to combine with Aegis Aurora and Melding of the Flesh.

Other than that I think the defenses are pretty much identical.
Since I run dps spectres however, I'm running Necromantic Aegis and can't use a defensive shield like the formentioned broken Aegis Aurora. This is more of a problem with Spectres being forced to run NA rather than Cold. If I decided to run Charge monkey instead I could simply run defensive shield aswell.
(I like how Spectres not only are the worst scaling minions, they also force you to run NA so you're the squishiest too...)

Under those circumstances though, I would probably want to go block, that's when Necromancers are superior since it's only they who can cap out their block for the most broken defensive layer in the game rivaled by Spell Supression.

If I wasn't convinced Aegis Aurora is getting nerfed next leageu I probably would try to redesign my build to go CI as a necro with Aegis Aurora and x4 or x3 Charge Monkeys instead. Going ES just requires too much investment for league starters though. But just having a ~1k ES pool with Aegis Aurora is super strong.