👻3.20👻 Kay's Summoner💥SRS Bomber💀Poison SRS💀Melee SRS🕷️Spiders💀Skeleton Mages

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50% added damage... That's not how we are scaling Mages anyhow. Assuming there are more ways to get minion level from other gear I don't think this nerf kills the build. The +3 to helment only really impacts the mirror tier helmet that slots skeletons. I cleared all content in Archnemsis fine without the helm.

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kayella escreveu:

I guess my thinking of starter is day 1 SSF starting and then specialise later. Also I'm thinking of new players who don't have scion yet! So that's why I like Guardian now. You can get +20% res, onslaught, 10% more damage in Act 3/4.

For some specialist minions, you need to pick the witch. Definitely for golems, you play Elementalist now. Occultist for spiders.

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monik390 escreveu:

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kayella escreveu:

I guess my thinking of starter is day 1 SSF starting and then specialise later. Also I'm thinking of new players who don't have scion yet! So that's why I like Guardian now. You can get +20% res, onslaught, 10% more damage in Act 3/4.

For some specialist minions, you need to pick the witch. Definitely for golems, you play Elementalist now. Occultist for spiders.

After I played around some Animate Weapon starters in pob, I found some interesting stuff.

Scenario:

- up to lvl 72.
- naked (besides +50% increased minion damage crafted with essence of fear, and triad grip for lightning (and chaos to get a clear understanding on how much necro would be better on a higher investment)).
- auras/curses/support skills matched properly.
- Merc lab (6 points).

Approach: Raw numbers compared, qol not counted.

Result:

Physical/impale: guardian is stronger.

Physical/poison: necromancer is stronger.

Lightning conversion: guardian is stronger.

At this point I have to say 2 things:

1. Both elementalist and ascendant in this scenario are weaker than either guardian or necromancer.

2. If necromancer get intimidate somewhere, and forbidden jewels to access elementalist/occultist nodes, she becomes:

a) barely stronger at physical/impale,
b) stronger than guardian at elemental convertion, and
c) absolutely crushes guardian at physical/poison or full chaos convertion.

Note: take those results with a grain of salt, since it's almost naked simulation.
Finished builds can show drastic difference. In damage, tankiness or qol.

Conclusion:

1. Physical/poison necro is the strongest AW starter in SSF scenario out of 6. In mid budget range, it's also the strongest.

2. Lightning guardian is the second strongest out of 6, if not counting triad grip. In mid budget range, necro is stronger.

3. Physical/impale, although it doesn't shine compared to ^^ above, it's probably the easiest to build, most comfortable to play, and the cheapest in mid-budget range. Either necro or guardian will do.

Outside of physical/poison, day 1 guardian is indeed better. Esp bc of Radiant Crusade qol, exactly like you said.

Later, most summoner builds would be stronger on necromancer tho. It's not like there are many exceptions from that.

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

Got any PoBs I could tinker with? :)

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monik390 escreveu:

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

Got any PoBs I could tinker with? :)

Sure: https://pastebin.com/JYibhbmH

Can choose passive tree and skill gems.




Don't ask why I took those minion defence nodes. Ancient Skull AW is a bit painful w/o them.

Also, be sure to check Unholy Might for minions as necro, and Intimidate as guardian.

Triad grips added, can choose them in items.

Finally, in physical/impale i'm using Brutality for Guardian and Ruthless for Necro. Have to switch them manually too.

Edit: Forgot to mention, in 3.19 poison damage would be doubled. Please be sure to count it properly, I used calculator on phone instead of adding it in pob xD

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

Might not be an issue for builds with active minions like AW though since you're constantly resummoning them anyway.

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monik390 escreveu:

Finally, most summoner builds would be stronger on necromancer tho. It's not like there are many exceptions from that.

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

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50% added damage... That's not how we are scaling Mages anyhow. Assuming there are more ways to get minion level from other gear I don't think this nerf kills the build. The +3 to helment only really impacts the mirror tier helmet that slots skeletons. I cleared all content in Archnemsis fine without the helm.

Skelly mages are getting a:
- 20% dmg nerf from blanket nerf to all minions
- 25% dmg nerf to skelly mages directly
- 20% dmg nerf from Unnatural Strength nerf (Nullified if you used skellys 6-linked in chest and not a +3 15 ex minion helm)
- 10% dmg nerf due to nerf to 7-link minion helms as levels got reduced from 3 to 2.
- ~50% dmg nerf with the removal of Frenzy and Power Charges (Assuming 2 of each charge cause Mages are temporary minions and most likely won't have 3/3 charges)

If you had a modestly geared Skelly mage build with 7-link helm, +2 wand, Ashes et.c. you most likely had ~25 million dps.

If we apply all these nerfs to this ~100 ex build the results would be:
25 * 0.8 * 0.75 * 0.8 * 0.9 * 0.5 = 5.4 million dps.

So you would've gone from ~25 million dps down to 5.4 million.
5.4/25 = 0.216 -> 1 - 0.216 = 0.784 -> 78.4%

This means Mage builds using x2 Power/Frenzy monkeys and a +3 minion helm would've lost 78.4% of their damage comparing these two leagues. I didn't calculate the change on Brittle from 5% base crit to 2% base crit either, so the dps nerf would've been even larger for many mage builds utilizing Brittle eldritch mods on their boots.

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

Unfortunately however, you can't really respecc from Guardian to Necro. If you pick Guardian you're stuck with it. It doesn't really take much for Necro to surpass Guardian in power so I'm still not convinced league starting with Guardian is the correct play. In the end it depends on how your fast you're able to gear and get into the endgame.