Boss damage a little too much

First off I'm not asking for a boss nerf, just an adjustment to the damage frequency- possibly compensated with having higher health and more difficult mechanics.

Don't get me wrong, I do love challenging games and really like how Path of Exile is turning out but I have a few problems with the current bosses. Brutus for example is the type of boss that you simply cant be hit by. Hes practically designed to be kited, if you get up close to him hes going to melt your face in 1-3 hits regardless of your damage reduction.

Vaal is also a bit too crazy on damage. I understand that its another one of those fights where "you're not supposed to get hit" and that "you're meant to dodge the attacks" but It's a little bit too unforgiving. You make one bad move in this fight and you can easily find yourself dead because of a stupid ceiling tile or a laser beam to the face.

I feel that If I invest a majority of my points into defensive passives that I shouldn't have to play like I'm Super Mario where I have to dodge everything and if I happen to make one bad move I'm a goner. It seems like the only advantage of not building "glass cannon" with every class is simply so that I can play as Big Mario and take 1 extra hit against bosses... but that's also at the cost of doing significantly less damage- meaning that I'm going to be in the fight for much longer.

I do not have a peticular problem with high dmg, I feel Brutus is easy, as you know exactly what he do and how - so it's easy to make a plan from start - use traps, viper strike or kite with ranged spells.

Vaal however is another story. If you aren't an tanky class, he will be very tough. The thing that, if you ask me, makes it impossible to plan the fight is his minions. I can easily run around give him a punch, run again, punch, run again and so on. But fighting his minions in freeze while trying to avoid rocks and laser beams, is fucking hard.

I think removing the minions that shoot on you, Vaal souls or what they are called, would make it much better. The skeletons are easier to avoid, but you would still have to kill them, so there won't be too many. I think that would make it better for the more squishy types of chars.

A little damage reduction wouldn't hurt though :P

I can't tell much because my highest level character is on cruel act 2, but from what i've seen in normal. Vaal and the Siren were in a difficulty between normal and hard, brutus was "easy". In Cruel so far it's been the same so far.
Tip for Vaal, when he's using the eletrical beam, run(he uses it 3 times).

So far i'm enjoying the difficulty. But, i've the feeling that it's too early to say that, there's a long road ahead.

Glass cannons die easy, this is well known. If you ask me all builds should build as tanky as their build would allow. Anyone who forgoes suvivability for DPS has no right to complain when they have issues against things they can't kill easily. I have no issues at all soloing any boss, and there is a reason for that.

Since there is very few dedicated support roles in this game it is the players' responsibility to build their character with this in mind. The only exception for this is if you play with your friend all the time in which case make your builds compliment each-other as much as you can.

"

Madix escreveu:

I feel that If I invest a majority of my points into defensive passives that I shouldn't have to play like I'm Super Mario where I have to dodge everything and if I happen to make one bad move I'm a goner. It seems like the only advantage of not building "glass cannon" with every class is simply so that I can play as Big Mario and take 1 extra hit against bosses... but that's also at the cost of doing significantly less damage- meaning that I'm going to be in the fight for much longer.

Not to be rude but do you even realize what you just said? Of course you will die easier if you don't get defensive stats, why should you be allowed to stay alive better for not getting defensive stats. My main can take 15 rocks before I die and a good 5 lasers, but that is only if my ES doesn't recharge. Any boss damage reduction will make tankier builds OP.

I'm sorry but the way you are justifying your argument bothers me greatly. If you want to stay alive build for it, if you like dieing then feel free to build glass cannon.

I'd like to mention that I've never actually died to any of these bosses because I play pretty tanky and cautiously (hardcore). The problem that I have is that even with moderate tankiness I cant help but feel that I'm "lucky" to be alive after certain boss fights.

I'm not new to hardcore, I played Diablo 2 HC for over 6 years and only died a handful of times, so I understand the importance of resists... but I also understand how dangerous damage spikes can be.

What do I mean by damage spikes? Damage spikes are instances where damage is severely inconsistent with the surrounding areas. Playing your character for hours barely going below 90% health then boom your dead in half a second is exactly what I'm referring to.

I just don't want to end up having to play like a coward because this game's bosses are the equivalent of MSLE, Fire Enchanted, or Oblivion Knights in Diablo 2.

-Yes, you can argue that you're supposed to dodge every bleeping attack from a boss.. and that's exactly what I meant by playing glass cannon. If the mechanics in the game encourage you to play in a way where your damage reduction is almost meaningless, because you're not getting hit, then why would you sacrifice damage for defense?

My ranger with full offense passives can out sustain my my marauder with mostly defense passives against most bosses simply because I can dodge every attack. My marauder is melee and slow moving so he ends up getting hit by many of the attacks that my ranger could've easily dodged. No doubt my marauder can tank quite a few more blows than my ranger, but he still has to end up using the same dodging tactics my ranger uses anyways because the blows just hurt too much to tank.

At least in Diablo 2 there was an incentive to build your resists and health to max- the bosses and enemies used tactics that made them more difficult to kite. Diablo had bone prison and full screen attacks, Duriel was super fast and had charge+cold, Baal had tentacles and a clone. My problem with this game is that there really isn't much keeping you from kiting everything. You can outrun enemies with proper boots and passives, projectiles are extremely slow, you can cure freeze/chilled, and every boss attack is predictable and dodgable.

I'm not saying its best to forgo all defense passives, everyone makes mistakes, Im just saying that the game discourages you to facetank stuff even when you're super tanky.

Once you get into the higher levels 60+, you have no choice but to tank your character if you want to survive. As noted this means making a huge sacrifice in terms of damage. The result is a dramatic increase in time spent fighting.

In other words the game forces you to grind. I agree with the OP to a degree, any time a game forces you to grind it's due to bad design/balancing; not bad character building.

Sure, you could just quit around level 60 and start a new character, but that's kinda lame. Truth is, character power & defense should scale proportionately with game difficulty. No one expects a high DPS ranger to point blank a boss, but at the same time it should not take 40+ minutes to kill said boss with a high DPS ranger.

tl;dr - We don't need bosses that do less damage, we just need glass cannons that do MORE damage. Characters are what's nerfed, not bosses.

"

neotoy escreveu:

Once you get into the higher levels 60+, you have no choice but to tank your character if you want to survive. As noted this means making a huge sacrifice in terms of damage. The result is a dramatic increase in time spent fighting.

In other words the game forces you to grind. I agree with the OP to a degree, any time a game forces you to grind it's due to bad design/balancing; not bad character building.

Sure, you could just quit around level 60 and start a new character, but that's kinda lame. Truth is, character power & defense should scale proportionately with game difficulty. No one expects a high DPS ranger to point blank a boss, but at the same time it should not take 40+ minutes to kill said boss with a high DPS ranger.

tl;dr - We don't need bosses that do less damage, we just need glass cannons that do MORE damage. Characters are what's nerfed, not bosses.

I agree, that would be a much better solution. Although I still think Vaals attacks are too unpredictable.

"

ongZ escreveu:

"

neotoy escreveu:

Once you get into the higher levels 60+, you have no choice but to tank your character if you want to survive. As noted this means making a huge sacrifice in terms of damage. The result is a dramatic increase in time spent fighting.

In other words the game forces you to grind. I agree with the OP to a degree, any time a game forces you to grind it's due to bad design/balancing; not bad character building.

Sure, you could just quit around level 60 and start a new character, but that's kinda lame. Truth is, character power & defense should scale proportionately with game difficulty. No one expects a high DPS ranger to point blank a boss, but at the same time it should not take 40+ minutes to kill said boss with a high DPS ranger.

tl;dr - We don't need bosses that do less damage, we just need glass cannons that do MORE damage. Characters are what's nerfed, not bosses.

I agree, that would be a much better solution. Although I still think Vaals attacks are too unpredictable.

Vaal Oversoul is the most predictable boss there is, you can even watch him change modes. Just save your granite flasks for the rock time and he is easy.

Temporal Chains > any boss; basically doubles you room for reaction time even if you use the level 1 gem.

As for glass -- even if I build as tanky as I can on a Ranger or Marauder, Brutus still hurts. He's supposed to. Play smart and slow, don't try to take his hits.

Dodge and kite.

As for endgame forcing you to build tanky - it doesn't. I have a glass Shadow who does fine. There are plenty of glass builds that work end game, but you cannot completely give up defense.

If you think bosses/endgame are hitting to hard -- post your build and your gear and let us decide if you're right.