How do YOU define "pay to win"?

I think it's funny that somebody uses having a job, hobby, and kids, as a 'real' reason why they should be able to "pay" for cheats, power ups, boosters, conveniences, etc.

All that does is take away from the competitive integrity of the game.

If Kobe Bryant is playing basketball 8 hours a day, making it a priority in his life, no other hobbies, just pure dedication and focus on the game of basketball, do you think some other guy who only plays basketball 5 hours a week, should be able to "pay" to catch up to his skills/game?

Of course not.

That's what you guys are suggesting with this "i have a job and hobby. I'm not one of those kids that can sit around playing games all day" arguments.

An XP boost may not grant you an inherent advantage - a person not using one can still get to the same max level as a person who does - but I still consider it pay to win. XP boosters will get a player to end-game levels faster, which means they can start farming for better gear much sooner than a person who doesn't use them. Since one person can get to a point where they're capable of obtaining items much sooner than a person who doesn't have that advantage, then it's an example of pay to win.

(Sure, a dedicated player can overcome this somewhat with sheer amounts of grinding, but if it takes 15 hours for a person to get to the same point as a person who played for 10, and the only difference between the players is that the second person had an item purchased with real money, then it's a case of pay to win.)

Stash slots, on the other hand, I don't consider to be pay to win. A person with fewer slots still gets all the same types of drops as a person who has more slots (though they have to spend a little more time choosing what to keep, and what to send off to mule characters), so there's no inherent advantage. Inventory slots are trickier, but I would probably consider those pay to win.

Calling out everything that I consider pay to win would be difficult, but as the saying goes - "I know it when I see it." If it feels like somebody would gain an advantage by buying a particular item, then it's probably an example of pay to win.

spend real money for stats,gear,exp bonus,etc...

Are they planning on selling XP boosts? That would be too close to, if not crossing, the pay-to-win border IMO.

I could see selling stash tabs as being a cash grab, except for the fact that they give you four already! FOUR stash tabs! That is a lot more than other games in this genre give you at all.

Some games don't even give you a stash if you don't pay anything.

P2W, for me, means selling anything that gives a significant advantage over non-paying players. What I consider significant depends on the game - in PoE's case I'm not bothered by stash tabs (since it only saves a bit of time), but I'd definitely be raging about, say, XP boosts of more than 5% (which would allow paying players to progress significantly faster).

P2W is being able to spend money on an in game advantage in terms of player power. Because of this just about all free games are P2W. Some are just more so than others.

GGG has said that no cash shop items will create a power advantage between two characters; this means no to XP boosts, no to Loot Boosts, no to any boosts of any kind.

Well, I suppose yes to shiny character boosts.

They also seem to be very generous with character slots and stash tabs, things most companies would keep minimal to up their sales of cash shop expansion slots.

P.S. XP Boosts 'are' pay to win since we have ladder races that you can win by getting to a higher level faster.

Stash tabs: Remember, everyone here has unlimited stash space since you can create new chars/accounts and transfer. Stash slots are convenience.

ANYTHING that you can't get in-game by playing, but that you can get by paying, It's P2W. When it's gameplay-changing ofc. Comestic stuff is purely...cosmetic. Full respecs are P2W, you can't get them in-game. XP boosts are P2W, you can't get them in-game. Basically anything you list that you can't get as you'd get by paying is considered pay 2 win.


Is it cosmetic? Yes? No?

If not : Can you get the EXACTLY same thing in-game, in the same way (not as often of course and not with the same ease), you'd get by paying some $$$?

Yes? Not P2W. / No? P2W.

Example: Stash Tabs: Cosmetic? No. / Question: Yes. Not P2W.

Im going in kill everyone without microtranscation stuff in cutthroat league giving the people who arent paying anything for PoE no other option but to buy microtransaction points if they wanna progress.
They will then start complaining to the devs that the game isnt a really freetoplay game and this will be the end to all of PoE....this is my plan if I ever have a bad day.

"

Magnicon2 escreveu:

Buying stash tabs in this game especially is P2W.

Not really, there is nothing preventing you from not buying these stash tabs and simply opening a new account and getting four stash tabs for free at the cost of having to multibox d2 style to mule between the two accounts.

Any advantage given to one char over the other is p2w....Stash tabs/dye's/fancy stuff that is appealing to the eye are not p2w....