[3.0] NeverSink's ♣ INDEPTH Tornado&Archer Guide ♣ Beginner friendly ♣ Rapid clear ♣ All bosses

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lophius escreveu:

Grace would be nice of course, but i think i will get a problem with elemental resistance and have a lot of evasion from gear. Also i like the synergy between taste of hate and purity of ice.

Why should i use puncture? I only need to apply bleed once to have the benefit for 6 seconds. Base damage doesn't seem to high, either. I would always take frenzy over puncture...

If you are Assasin with pure physical dmg it is not even a contest. Puncture is just flat out better for everything except generating frenzy charges. As a boss Killer the bleeding effect is amazing.

Maimed targets will receive 100% more (not increased) dmg from bleeding and you are doing pure phys dmg, which means 100% of your puncture dmg will be part of the bleed effect.

Frenzy is only really worth it if you are raider with 10 frenzy charges and even then it feels kind of weak tbh.

Also I don't get why you would use Atziri's Boots if they are the reason you cannot use Grace instead of purity of Ice.

So if you calculate opportunity cost vs. a pair of rares they give you
-2100 flat evasion rating (since you cannot take grace and we asume there is some evasion rating on your rare boots as well. This is before taking into account your %increased evasion).
-40% fire res
-40% fire res
cold res break even
+4% max cold resist
-10-15 flat life depending on rare roll.
movement speed - break even
+16% spell dodge

Above stats are with a good rare boot pair but even a bad pair > Atziri's Step

Also a small thing from your passive tree - make sure not go for attack speed in the shadow beginning. 10% physical dmg / 10% chaos dmg nodes > 4% attack speed :)

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If you are Assasin with pure physical dmg it is not even a contest. Puncture is just flat out better for everything except generating frenzy charges. As a boss Killer the bleeding effect is amazing.

Maimed targets will receive 100% more (not increased) dmg from bleeding and you are doing pure phys dmg, which means 100% of your puncture dmg will be part of the bleed effect.

Frenzy is only really worth it if you are raider with 10 frenzy charges and even then it feels kind of weak tbh.

Am i missing something? With frenzy i have 30% to cause bleeding on hit(ascendancy), so after 3-4 hits they will have a bleeding effect on them(With tornado shot after 1 attack). Bleed lasts for 6 seconds, so after it is applied once there will always be a bleed effect on the enemy, so then the damage depends only on the initial hit.
Also poison works very similarly to bleed, but it does stack with itself. I will have 100% chance to poison and it scales completly with the on hit dps i got. Frenzy has way more on hit dps than puncture.

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Also I don't get why you would use Atziri's Boots if they are the reason you cannot use Grace instead of purity of Ice.

I'm not completly sure, but i think the potencial value is definitly higher. I get a lot of evasion due to 160% increased from passives, every unique i want has evasion and i want to use enfeeble, so there will be harsh diminishing returns. Also max cold resistance is very nice with taste of hate, as during flask effect they reduce damage taken form physical hits too.
The boots you used in your breakdown are nearly perfect rare and sell in standard for 90 ex. I want to get this char in the new league and can't aford to pay more than 1 exalted for quite a while. Finally i am a big fan of spell dodge as i will use vaal grace and get maximum spell dodge during vaal grace effect, but of course it is nice to have at all times. Nevermind also said they are the ultimate lategame upgrade and i don't need damage auras. Arctic armour is very nice and i defintly want that instead of another purity with finished items, but until i get there i consider using 2 puritys.

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10% physical dmg / 10% chaos dmg nodes > 4% attack speed :)

I'm absolutly not certain what i like more. I'm tending towards damage, but in my mind they are equally good.

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lophius escreveu:

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If you are Assasin with pure physical dmg it is not even a contest. Puncture is just flat out better for everything except generating frenzy charges. As a boss Killer the bleeding effect is amazing.

Maimed targets will receive 100% more (not increased) dmg from bleeding and you are doing pure phys dmg, which means 100% of your puncture dmg will be part of the bleed effect.

Frenzy is only really worth it if you are raider with 10 frenzy charges and even then it feels kind of weak tbh.

Am i missing something? With frenzy i have 30% to cause bleeding on hit(ascendancy), so after 3-4 hits they will have a bleeding effect on them(With tornado shot after 1 attack). Bleed lasts for 6 seconds, so after it is applied once there will always be a bleed effect on the enemy, so then the damage depends only on the initial hit.
Also poison works very similarly to bleed, but it does stack with itself. I will have 100% chance to poison and it scales completly with the on hit dps i got. Frenzy has way more on hit dps than puncture.

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Also I don't get why you would use Atziri's Boots if they are the reason you cannot use Grace instead of purity of Ice.

I'm not completly sure, but i think the potencial value is definitly higher. I get a lot of evasion due to 160% increased from passives, every unique i want has evasion and i want to use enfeeble, so there will be harsh diminishing returns. Also max cold resistance is very nice with taste of hate, as during flask effect they reduce damage taken form physical hits too.
The boots you used in your breakdown are nearly perfect rare and sell in standard for 90 ex. I want to get this char in the new league and can't aford to pay more than 1 exalted for quite a while. Finally i am a big fan of spell dodge as i will use vaal grace and get maximum spell dodge during vaal grace effect, but of course it is nice to have at all times. Nevermind also said they are the ultimate lategame upgrade and i don't need damage auras. Arctic armour is very nice and i defintly want that instead of another purity with finished items, but until i get there i consider using 2 puritys.

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10% physical dmg / 10% chaos dmg nodes > 4% attack speed :)

I'm absolutly not certain what i like more. I'm tending towards damage, but in my mind they are equally good.

First of all it is always nice to see someone trying out something that isn't "cookie cutter" :D

A) Puncture vs. Frenzy. Yup you are right. I guess my knowledge on that field is outdated with the new Ascendancy points. Last season there was a nice puncture build but he used puncture as main attack. For single target you are totally right.

B) About Atziri's Step. They are kind of bad for archers. The opportunity cost on resist ensures you have to either go defensive in other item slots (miss out on Rat's Nest for instance or Snakebite).

Just did a search on Standard league for boots with 30% movement speed, 110% + elemental resist and 70+ max life. There is a pair for 40C :) Some others are 5-10 ex. Also this might sound crazy but crafting a really good pair of boots is not that hard - there aren't that many different rolls boots can hit. Chaos spamming ftw :)

Also I want to point out I always end up with boots of that quality.
From last two leagues:


Also as I pointed out in my post even a pair much worse than those I just linked or listed would still be a superior choice compared to Atziri's Step :(

Also 4% max cold res and taste of hate really isn't that big a deal. Say you have a legacy taste of hate. You get hit for 1000 dmg. 300 of those is converted into cold dmg. Without purity of ice you will absorb 225 of those 300. With a lvl 20 purity of cold you will absorb 237. 12 dmg difference on a 1k hit.
Now everything counts but Grace would be superior in most circumstances since you would get hit fever times and fewer hits would be confirmed critical hits (scaling even better with your enfeeble!).

All in all - I highly recommend not using Atziri's Step (on almost any Archer build unless you have an extremely well rolled rare evasion chest or you are building towards spell dodge) or go for Atziri's Step but make sure you are also using Grace + being overcapped for elemental weakness through other items such defensively rolled rings and jewels.

C) 10% phys / 10% chaos is still double dipping on your poison. If you make use of chaos dmg (which you are) those nodes are kind of insane - they should be nerfed to be honest... but they aren't :D So you can be a gentleman about it and not abuse the nodes or you can be a scoundrel and make use of them ;)

Edit:
D) About diminishing returns on evasion. Your increased evasion rating is somewhere around 230-250% (remember to include dex and armour / evasion nodes). That is quite solid. Not insanely high but solid.

Let us assume you get a rare pair of boots with 150 evasion rating but you put on Grace. That is a net gain of 2083 flat evasion. With your increased modifiers that's somewhere between 6874 - 7290 extra evasion rating.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kCeAy43G3LiL0NMFVEgrLy0Uf1DXMjuyx_-7hRq47y4/edit#gid=19
Even with a good evasion rating (say... 10k-14k) those extra 7k evasion rating is really solid - especially combined with enfeeble :)

I just wanted to throw a quick thank you to NeverSink for this build. I used it as my end game character for the last league with a lot of success!

Anyone else feels Trap Puncture is kinda bad for Atziri Clones? I need 6-9 Traps to take one down, and this takes very long. This is my bow and the Trap setup, Tooltip says 12k in HO, with Hatred, Hoi and Ice Golem.

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Cr4v3n escreveu:

Anyone else feels Trap Puncture is kinda bad for Atziri Clones? I need 6-9 Traps to take one down, and this takes very long. This is my bow and the Trap setup, Tooltip says 12k in HO, with Hatred, Hoi and Ice Golem.

You passive tree has a very low amount of increased modifiers. How about you respec into something like this:

(bandits - 40 hp, passive, passive)



As for Atziri I find it quite easy to reach a point in which you can "1-shot her" with 3 precast traps. At least for normal Atziri. Uber Atziri is a bit tougher but doable with a 6L setup.

With 2.3 Raider Ascendancy got buffed significantly.
Up until now I went for Avatar of the Chase with Quartz Infusion which already felt really good :)

Apparently 'Quartz Infusuin' now gives Phasing whilst at full Frenzy Charges, which essentially makes it perma Phasing.
With the additional two Ascendancy points from Endgame Lab you can take both Avatar of the Chase and Avatar of the Veil which results in a very good defensive build by beeing immune to Elemental Status Ailment while Phasing plus giving you 20% increased Elemental Damage, 20% increased Movementspeed while Phasing and 10% chance to Dodge Spell Damage while Phasing.

I feel this is outright insane and I have no idea why GGG buffed this already very good build. But I really appreciate it :3

Shoutout to NeverSink for this awesome guide! Thank You!

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Frankenberry escreveu:

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Cr4v3n escreveu:

Anyone else feels Trap Puncture is kinda bad for Atziri Clones? I need 6-9 Traps to take one down, and this takes very long. This is my bow and the Trap setup, Tooltip says 12k in HO, with Hatred, Hoi and Ice Golem.

Spoiler

Spoiler

You passive tree has a very low amount of increased modifiers. How about you respec into something like this:

(bandits - 40 hp, passive, passive)

Spoiler

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAICAABeAdwFLQW1BiMILgiJDY0RLxPaFUMWvxmOIXYj0yP2JP0mlS5TMHEwfDH6MpQ1kjY9N9Q51DpCOuFDMUd-Sn1LeEz_TZJN404qUUdVS1uvXWhh4mKsZU1sjG87cFJ07XXLdf1293fjeA1673sUfXV_An8rhG-E2YbOh3aJ04w2jX2Nfo2_j2CQCpUFmvGbjZ2qoJ-hpKOKplem4KfUqW6xAbTFtUi18rvjvTa-p8AawTPC7MSiyqnNmM9e02_TftQj1ELWiti92cbawd2o4dvjn-dU6b3qYutj7T_tg-4O73rwu_JF_MX-Cv6P_rr-yP_e

As for Atziri I find it quite easy to reach a point in which you can "1-shot her" with 3 precast traps. At least for normal Atziri. Uber Atziri is a bit tougher but doable with a 6L setup.

Looks good so far, Puncture went up to 16k.
TS went up (a lot) too, but that was good even before.
Lost 200 HP now at 5.9k, still good imo.

Will test, thanks!

First of all a great thanks to you for helping me here! It's nice to have someone question your decisions.

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Frankenberry escreveu:

B) About Atziri's Step. They are kind of bad for archers. The opportunity cost on resist ensures you have to either go defensive in other item slots (miss out on Rat's Nest for instance or Snakebite).

I have to agree with you now. I guess i won't be using them until end gear if at all.

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Frankenberry escreveu:

C) 10% phys / 10% chaos

I will take them and i think they are better than the as nodes.

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Frankenberry escreveu:

D) About diminishing returns on evasion.

I don't like what i am seeing, but it really seems like grace is better than a purity. I am a bit sad about that because a purity would lower the equip requirement and give me defenses against elemental damage i can't get otherwise, but after all grace reduces the physical damage i take more than a purity does. If i notice i have more problem with elemental damage i might still use a purity, but that is not likely. Thanks for showing me that the diminishing returns aren't as bad as i thought.


On another node:
I just found the caustic arrow skill gem and even though my current build doesn't synergize well with the area cloud, it does scale well with added chaos damage? What is your opinion? frenzy, caustic or tornado?

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lophius escreveu:

On another node:
I just found the caustic arrow skill gem and even though my current build doesn't synergize well with the area cloud, it does scale well with added chaos damage? What is your opinion? frenzy, caustic or tornado?

Caustic Arrow is purely used as a "spell" and scales bad with your gems / passives / gear (https://vmoddin.wordpress.com/poisonarrow/ for Caustic Arrow cloud calculation). Stick with frenzy for single target and TS for AoE.