[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

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brightwaha escreveu:
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Johite escreveu:
Hey,thx for the guide. A couple of questions if you don't mind. I really want to try the pure phys version as I don't like elemental builds. All my builds are pure phys, but let's just say I am too afraid to try the berserker. Is slayer pure phys lacking in damage or shouldn't I be afraid of berserker cause of stun's safety?

Thanks in advance.


I would say that Berserker's defense and Slayer's DPS are not something you should be afraid of. Instead it's better to ask the question "do I want higher DPS while sacrificing my defense?"

I achieved stun-locking on Shaper with my pure phys version Slayer on 3.1 I think. That was 4 patches ago and now our DPS has doubled. With good gears you can now even attempt to stun-lock Shaper with a pure phys Slayer without popping flasks (chances are going to be maybe around 50% instead of 90%+, but still doable). So your DPS is more about the consistency of the stun-locking and your clear speed while mapping.

I have been mostly playing Berserker and I would say although Berserker has weaker defense, it's DPS can compensate for that. With the right flasks I can rush down Minotaur (stun immune) without moving, and I feel pretty safe while mapping as well.

I would say from my experience, the things I notice after switching from Berserker to Slayer is that, Berserker is much faster than Slayer, and Slayer is much tankier than Berserker. So the question really is, if you want higher mobility and DPS (which feels quite good), or do you want to be able to run maps, laid back, watching streams at the same time, knowing that you're unlikely to die anyways.

You also need to manually cast warcries as Berserker, which, isn't a big deal to me (feels like driving manual transmission cars), but certainly takes some time to get used to.


Thx a lot for the thorough answer!I've actually never made a berserker and my heart is leaning towards that, but since you can confirm that pure phys slayer can stun everything up to Shaper, I will go with that. Since the Slayer tree was made for elemental, are any changes needed or I should just follow that since it is built into extra damage from phys?
Última edição por Johite#2047 em 1 de fev de 2019 04:10:55
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Johite escreveu:
Thx a lot for the thorough answer!I've actually never made a berserker and my heart is leaning towards that, but since you can confirm that pure phys slayer can stun everything up to Shaper, I will go with that. Since the Slayer tree was made for elemental, are any changes needed or I should just follow that since it is built into extra damage from phys?


No you don't need to make any changes; and yes it's because the extra damage all comes from phys.

Generally, it's just very inefficient for non-crit builds to find extra damage from the passive tree. You shouldn't worry too much about it.
OH MY GOD lol this build looks insane, shaper cant even cast the beam :D I'm gonna play this next league

reserved

nvm couldn't wait the next league

UPDATE: Trying it now, using ground slam instead of heavy strike as it's huge aoe with way less single target but can still stunlock up to t13-14 map bosses with bad gear with GS. Just got a 6 link Tidebreaker had the flasks already, but i seem to die a lot without Hematophagy wheel, what do you think ? Pure phys build looks much more tankier but i love HoA explosions, and i don't think i can stunlock with GS without flasks. My only problem is syndicate members, they are definitely not stun immune but they have got huge life pool, moves a lot and ranged. I'm hating them lol, i read you don't play betrayal but i'm sure you'd hate syndicate as well :D
Última edição por shape3169#6973 em 13 de fev de 2019 13:56:56
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ulfasar1 escreveu:
OH MY GOD lol this build looks insane, shaper cant even cast the beam :D I'm gonna play this next league

reserved

nvm couldn't wait the next league

UPDATE: Trying it now, using ground slam instead of heavy strike as it's huge aoe with way less single target but can still stunlock up to t13-14 map bosses with bad gear with GS. Just got a 6 link Tidebreaker had the flasks already, but i seem to die a lot without Hematophagy wheel, what do you think ? Pure phys build looks much more tankier but i love HoA explosions, and i don't think i can stunlock with GS without flasks. My only problem is syndicate members, they are definitely not stun immune but they have got huge life pool, moves a lot and ranged. I'm hating them lol, i read you don't play betrayal but i'm sure you'd hate syndicate as well :D


Ground Slam is actually decent for stun-locking. I would say a 6link Ground Slam is much better than a 5link Heavy Strike - which means you can even stun-lock Shaper with Ground Slam. (Although you need to socket Concentrated Effect for good boss fight performance.)

I think if you’re dying a lot, it has much more to do with your play style rather than anything else. Slayer is already far tankier than Berserker and I have no trouble at all with my Berserker build. Hematophagy won’t help you too much because if you can utilize our greatest defense (stunning) well, then you wouldn’t need life leech to begin with.

Maybe you’re saying that you’re dying to Syndicate members, and that’s another story. I think they’re indeed stun immune, as I never found myself stunning any of them, despite that my character this league completely stun-locked Shaper with just 1 flask. Syndicate members have far smaller life pool compared to Shaper, and it’s very hard for me to believe that they’re not stun immune.

And I actually don’t have problem staying alive during Syndicate fights with my Berserker, as long as flasks are managed properly I find this content completely doable despite not being able to stun them. Although there is indeed a much higher risk of death doing this content and I would skip this league content in a map with highly deadly mods.
Spoiler
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brightwaha escreveu:
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ulfasar1 escreveu:
OH MY GOD lol this build looks insane, shaper cant even cast the beam :D I'm gonna play this next league

reserved

nvm couldn't wait the next league

UPDATE: Trying it now, using ground slam instead of heavy strike as it's huge aoe with way less single target but can still stunlock up to t13-14 map bosses with bad gear with GS. Just got a 6 link Tidebreaker had the flasks already, but i seem to die a lot without Hematophagy wheel, what do you think ? Pure phys build looks much more tankier but i love HoA explosions, and i don't think i can stunlock with GS without flasks. My only problem is syndicate members, they are definitely not stun immune but they have got huge life pool, moves a lot and ranged. I'm hating them lol, i read you don't play betrayal but i'm sure you'd hate syndicate as well :D


Ground Slam is actually decent for stun-locking. I would say a 6link Ground Slam is much better than a 5link Heavy Strike - which means you can even stun-lock Shaper with Ground Slam. (Although you need to socket Concentrated Effect for good boss fight performance.)

I think if you’re dying a lot, it has much more to do with your play style rather than anything else. Slayer is already far tankier than Berserker and I have no trouble at all with my Berserker build. Hematophagy won’t help you too much because if you can utilize our greatest defense (stunning) well, then you wouldn’t need life leech to begin with.

Maybe you’re saying that you’re dying to Syndicate members, and that’s another story. I think they’re indeed stun immune, as I never found myself stunning any of them, despite that my character this league completely stun-locked Shaper with just 1 flask. Syndicate members have far smaller life pool compared to Shaper, and it’s very hard for me to believe that they’re not stun immune.

And I actually don’t have problem staying alive during Syndicate fights with my Berserker, as long as flasks are managed properly I find this content completely doable despite not being able to stun them. Although there is indeed a much higher risk of death doing this content and I would skip this league content in a map with highly deadly mods.


After getting Devoto's Devotion it's much easier to deal with syndicate now i can dodge their hits thanks to overleech. Crafted the tidebreaker with 3 white sockets to switch Heavy Strike for hard bosses. Feeling much flexible now, can switch to pure phys HS or GS for clearing.
Can I use Ryslatha Coil? Is it any good? (Nevermind, just checked updates for 3.5)


OP: did you manage to kill uber elder deathless?
Última edição por Haadd#5888 em 18 de fev de 2019 10:50:33
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Haadd escreveu:
Can I use Ryslatha Coil? Is it any good? (Nevermind, just checked updates for 3.5)


OP: did you manage to kill uber elder deathless?


Yes, as you probably found out, Ryslatha is super good now after the buff and becomes BiS for this build in my opinion.

As for Uber Elder: No, I haven’t made any attempts for months. Because it’s a fight that requires skill and cannot be done with just stun-locking, I found it pointless to do the fight at all - doing it will only prove that I have good skills and experience, but it won’t show anything about this stun build. For the same reason I have not posted any Phoenix or Minotaur videos.

Maybe I will do some Uber Elders when the next league comes out, maybe.
I understand. I like this build very much. Love 2h hammers, so this build appeal to my taste in gameplay. I think it would be more informative to point out this build is not optimal for all content clearing, like you stated in the guide, since it probably requires immense skill from player to do certain content.
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Haadd escreveu:
I understand. I like this build very much. Love 2h hammers, so this build appeal to my taste in gameplay. I think it would be more informative to point out this build is not optimal for all content clearing, like you stated in the guide, since it probably requires immense skill from player to do certain content.


I do agree that this build cannot really face-roll all content and I have made a couple of changes in the guide to point it out.

But I also think, however, that for most content, besides maybe Uber Elder and Vaal Temple, this build requires far less skill than most builds. For example, most builds do need to dodge Shaper slams. Generally, unless you're talking about the meta builds each league or maybe luxurious builds with 3 digits of exalts, it's quite difficult to beat this build in terms of how easy boss fights are.

So it can be a bit unfair to say that this build requires immense skills to do certain content. What we can say, however, is that this build does not scale very well with a huge budget and super high end gears (just like most other non-crit builds), and I think that's the problem you're talking about.
Última edição por brightwaha#1717 em 19 de fev de 2019 20:51:34
I've been eyeing this build up for ages because I absolutely adore the concept; stun-immune maps and bosses are putting me off somewhat. I wish stun-immune was swapped to stun-resist, much like the elemental ailments mod.

Can you comment on a couple things for me:

Won't crit builds have much greater success stunning due to their RNG hit-damage spikes? Won't these blows have an extremely high chance to crit?

How valuable is shock from Starforge when it comes to critting? This seems like a natural synergy since you're built to deliver maximum damage from each blow which would give a potent shock application.

Would jugg/champ Scion solve some problems vis-a-vis endurance charges vs. stun-immunity?

EDIT: I just thought about it some more and the fact is you're already stunning everything that can be stunned without crits and shock, so why bother factoring for these things. I just wish stun-immunity was coded as -100% stun duration or something like that. le sigh
Última edição por Crêpo#0482 em 21 de fev de 2019 10:34:50

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