Rue's 2000+ Balls deep Solo Delve build All Content Viable High DPS/Tanky/Fast

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zonda02 escreveu:

At what point of delve level should i switch to full immune/evade version of this build? I tried at around lvl 1000 and still was fine with usual version.
Any upgrades i should buy @ 100 ex budget?

Probably around 1800-2000 but I havnt Delved that deep. I prefer going sideway as I do more Delving for reduced cost.

Before you invest currency, I suggest you invest time. Are you skipping ?
Your boots and belt are not capped and you are dangerously close to cap. Many ppl cant have your attack even with perfect roll and it's not because it doesnt work math wise. It's because of server tick rate. Attacking too slow lose you max potential dps, but attacking too fast make you lose even more dmg because you have to do 1 extra attack to get that same amount of cast.

For the most part, much of your gears is better than mine. Those rings man... They really make me want to lick myself
You have a jewel on the other hand on the Guardian side of tree and it's really an alien. I mean, it's not a bad jewel at all and the corruption is good but it's just a BAD jewel for you! I just cant imagine that you cannot find another jewel with life,1 other useful mod and that corruption. If you sold it, Im sure some low life Guardians would become wet bearded schoolgirls over it. You would see the water drop from under their skirts. For other jewels I just suggest finding similar jewel and vaaling the worst. If you hit a good implicit it will be worth it.

As a replacement you could probably find a jewel that has life/mana and help you balance resist because right now the only thing wise oak does is pierce fire. If you had a jewel that added 10+ lightning and recrafted the fire resist mod on your plate to have at least 1 more you would still pierce fire res but have your lowest resist as cold making it even better for Uber and even physical mitigation cause of Taste of Hate flask.

1 possible upgrade you could do to tree is get rid of MoM. ctrl+f MoM <---. See what I say about how it's simply nerfing Zerphy recovery and your dmg as soon as you get hit. If you feel you need it for surviving 1 shots in Delve you might as well keep it, change your tree to current Rue tree and possibly get Cloak of defiance for more mana/mana regen and start to use them frost walls to avoid getting hit.

You quality the Zerphi and Divination. They lost value because it cap you faster making initial ramp up time much longer than needed.

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zonda02 escreveu:

Is there any reason NOT to use combustion gem in frenzy setup? Apart from a bit lower mana cost (hence, slower ramp time) there are only benefits?

I have a combustion lvl 21 and use it for end game boss replacing body swap to max the volatile corpse consumption and with your helmet enchant it's wasted as if I remember correctly the body swap consume the extra corpse it would use on end game bosses as it's the only corpses you really get. Might as well give the helm to me. Will give you mine instead ;) It's well rolled.. 59/60 :p

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zonda02 escreveu:

Also is it worth crafting dual conversion body armours for extra surviveability? Or using a high life+% phys reduction armour is enough?

Yes and no. I mean that plate you use is pretty good. Technically if you wanna craft a plate I would suggest using a Astral plate ilvl 86 because of the +12 all resist which will not affect balancing resist since its even across the board and a glorious plate is rather useless for the extra amour because it really doesnt provide much more mitigation for 70 point of armour over mine.



Elder Vs Shaper Armour

Elder has chance to craft with more % life as its also a elder mod but I prefer shaper because it's the one that can get phys to cold and since you run purity of ice 21 for uber it just scale much better as I have 95% cold resist with flask up and purity of ice. This all scale very well considering our taste of hate also grant 30% physical as cold because Pathfinder. I also have a clarity watcher with phys to cold with purity of ice but as you use a clarity/anger watcher it could be expensive to find the purity of ice mod. If you scroll up posts and see my gear I posted you will see I have the exact same life roll without the str.

In short(flask on)

Your phys damage taken is split as follow with flask on:

13% physical ----> fire (body armour)
30% physical ----> cold (Taste of Hate)
Fire resist = 90
Cold resist = 90, 95 if purity of ice
Remaining physical damage 57% physical

My phys damage taken is split as follow with flask on:

8% physical ----> cold (Watcher while affected by purity of ice)
9% physical ----> cold (body armour)
30% physical ----> cold (Taste of Hate)
Remaining physical damage 61% physical, 53% while affected by purity of ice
Cold resist = 90, 95 if purity of ice
As you can see, having the phys to cold provide the best possible mitigation because of purity of ice. even without watcher eye.
More on that with crafting option


Fossil Vs Essence
In the long run Essence would be better on a Astral Shaper plate because you can achieve 30% phys to cold. Getting that would be completely bunker.

To put into perspective:
Let's just look at a perfect scenario for the sake of it and imagine it rolled well. (even if unlikely you will get it all fixed by end of league)

Same watcher you use but 3rd mod would be purity of ice 10%

You would get:
10% physical ----> cold (Watcher while affected by purity of ice)
30% physical ----> cold (body armour)
30% physical ----> cold (Taste of Hate)
Remaining physical dmg 30% that would be reduced by about 20%+- cause of armour (PoB is wrong, ingame is wrong. It's just an indicator and strong monsters like uber bypass more of it)
Cold resist = 95 with purity of ice <--- 70% of you physical dmg reduced by 95% Thats epic effective life. I would easily say that even a Elder 13% life 153 life, 55 str, %str with crafted all attribute wouldnt even compete as far as effective life goes. Can get real expensive to buy or to craft. Hitting 30% cold is probably gonna be costly and since Essence = prefix, phys to cold = prefix and life or phys to lightning is another prefix it become really hard to hit. If you happened to hit 30% phys to cold and 15% phys to lightning I probably wouldnt even mind. Would be more effective vs physical dmg but little less vs 1 shot of elemental dmg as phys to lightning instead of life would only increase your effective life vs phys hits.

Still, shaper Pristine fossil craft can be very good with 5% life, 153 life and 15 phys to cold, 15% phys to lightning provide ton of the proper mitigation.

In short 15% cold will always be better that fire as soon as you use purity of ice. It's not that much more but it's still very good. Every bits add up.

Man, I see you trying to help and put alot of time in it. But this is the 2nd guy you misleading here.

First and foremost the Elder fight. It's really trivial with VD to just not get hit during the whole encounter. Bodyswap and VD double support gems, dying sun and you are golden.

The safety cushion of 30% cold to phy and 90% cold and fire resistances is enough to make you take a slam to the face without noticing. No need for meme Purities. Defiance is the BiS Armour for the encounter for the mana regen (read = damage) it provides.

Secondly, MoM. It hides the most effective mana nodes on the tree. CwDT with 3 endurance charges makes sure we dont take more than 1 hit within 2 seconds which will also skyrocket our mana regen! To compensate the initial mana loss, 2nd mod for Watcher's Eye comes in play with 20% hit damage regen as mana.

During mapping you are hit so rare, you have to damage yourself to get the boot regen going. Lastly, ramp up during mapping is non-existant, you just run into pack of mobs that drain your mana and off go both Zerphi and DD! Which you could also quality up for more mana regen, but their gain is so tiny in the grand scheme of things, with 3-6k mana regen per second those 10 per 10s and 20 per 5s mean nothing.

Thirdly attack speeds. You are using faster attacks in gloves from meme builds. That increases speed difference between frenzy and wand attacks to the point you are nullifying belt's CDR gains.

Which leads us to the 4th point and that is Indigon roll. Yes, you want 59-60% spell damage, but you don't want 60% mana cost. Why? A little explaining have to be done.

Indigons damage caps at mana regen values no matter what. So let's take 2 helms one with 50% one with 60% mana cost. 10k mana we both spent recently to get 3000% spell damage.

From this point, we keep attacking and both don't have enough for frenzy on the 1st attack, so the damage goes down and attacking is slower. 2nd attack 60% mana cost Indigon still don't have mana so it's spiking even more. But the 50% regened enough and do a faster attack for increased damage.

Essentially, we all spike on dmg and speed, but you do it less with less mana cost. I didn't do the math, but I trust people that did and it looks like 50 vs 60 is close to 35% more damage overall (more balls cast and recent mana spent kept at higher values) and more mobility.

Edit: the ramp up is obviously slower for 50% indigon. That's why i run MF setup with Lvl 15 Arcane Surge to proc it more consistently.

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zoNiklv escreveu:

Man, I see you trying to help and put alot of time in it. But this is the 2nd guy you misleading here.

Look, I will bother to reply for only 2 reasons.
1. I dont want you confusing people with your terrible tips.
2. Maybe you will understand more how this build work after.
And please.. After this, stop theory crafting.

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zoNiklv escreveu:

It's really trivial with VD to just not get hit during the whole encounter. Bodyswap and VD double support gems, dying sun and you are golden.

And yet, many ppl still use those boots to guarantee no problem in case they DO get hit. It's nothing new, its not even misleading. Also, like me. I dont even care about moving. I remove the bodyswap to USE that corpse for volatile dead for extra dmg. I put Combustion in there instead for MORE dmg. So I can just stand still and kill Uber getting hit by everything without getting stunned. I dont want to put Combustion in frenzy because if I dont have mana for Frenzy I still want to Combustion debuff.

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zoNiklv escreveu:

The safety cushion of 30% cold to phy and 90% cold and fire resistances is enough to make you take a slam to the face without noticing. No need for meme Purities. Defiance is the BiS Armour for the encounter for the mana regen (read = damage) it provides.

Again, that may be your experience. But it is not a fact. Just look last page the guy I was helping. Still dying to his slams. See for yourself. Shifting damage to mana simply nerf his whole character as he lose mana used for Zerphy recovery, his capped dmg with indigon and all that cause you want him to use MoM and LOSE mana he could SPEND toward damage. I cant even believe that further in the post you talk about lowering mana cost of Indigon to ramp up more AFTER saying something like this. Please... This whole post is so troll.

LOOK

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OPAbra escreveu:

Right now I am struggling to kill my 450 aul as he does a 1hit attack, as well as shaper doing a slam occasionally killing me

And you know what ? That was a MoM user!!! And you know why ???
That is because his MoM was killing his life recovery from Zerphi! Shift 1000-2000 dmg to mana = to losing 6000-12000 life recovery over 4 second from Zerphi. GJ. You just told players how to kill themselves.

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zoNiklv escreveu:

Secondly, MoM. It hides the most effective mana nodes on the tree. CwDT with 3 endurance charges makes sure we dont take more than 1 hit within 2 seconds which will also skyrocket our mana regen!

Not only you can scroll up 2 post and see someone say the same thing as I do. You can find Rue saying the same thing HIMSELF about how he simply use this armour because of in Deep Delving it's ALL 1 shot. So he stay away from monsters, frost wall and use it for the EXTRA MANA. GL getting Endurance Charges VS Shaper and even Uber Elder during most of the fight... That CwDT 3 endurance charge = to nothing where it matter as if you go deep enough in Delve the hit will KILL YOU and then your CORPSE will trigger Immortal call.

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zoNiklv escreveu:

To compensate the initial mana loss, 2nd mod for Watcher's Eye comes in play with 20% hit damage regen as mana.

Again, you are totally confused and by this point I know you dont even play this build. 20% hit damage taken regen as mana will kill Zerphi. It IS the Watcher Eye Mod to AVOID with Zerphi builds. You will get hit hard and mana will regen more than your unreserved mana. That will kill Zerphi and the poor poet pen user.Nothing new. Well known facts.
. The only watcher Eye mods you could want are Mana regen rate(clarity), Life Recovery(Vitality), Fire pen(Anger), Phys to cold(Purity of ice). You would only even want the Fire pen(anger) if you have Aul’s Uprising(Anger). The other purity phys to X could work but provide much less use than a Ice one. Just go page 1 and read. Stop theory crafting.

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zoNiklv escreveu:

During mapping you are hit so rare, you have to damage yourself to get the boot regen going.

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zoNiklv escreveu:

Lastly, ramp up during mapping is non-existant, you just run into pack of mobs that drain your mana and off go both Zerphi and DD! Which you could also quality up for more mana regen, but their gain is so tiny in the grand scheme of things, with 3-6k mana regen per second those 10 per 10s and 20 per 5s mean nothing.

You didnt just say that....Gluck in high Delve like these guys are doing. Rue CANNOT EVEN GET HIT. He stay pretty much offscreen and frost wall.
Read Carefuly What Come Next

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RueRue escreveu:

The build originally was designed for pre delve content and for that content dodge wasnt necessary cuz we could just tank everything and never die. However my new delve build does have dodge and evade because at a certain point 1800 + you just cant tank anything anymore.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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zoNiklv escreveu:

Indigon roll. Yes, you want 59-60% spell damage, but you don't want 60% mana cost. Why? A little explaining have to be done.

Indigons damage caps at mana regen values no matter what. So let's take 2 helms one with 50% one with 60% mana cost. 10k mana we both spent recently to get 3000% spell damage.

From this point, we keep attacking and both don't have enough for frenzy on the 1st attack, so the damage goes down and attacking is slower. 2nd attack 60% mana cost Indigon still don't have mana so it's spiking even more. But the 50% regened enough and do a faster attack for increased damage.

You can look any guides.. This one or Reaghar... They will all say the same thing. It only change the ramp up time. The only change is I will get to low mana faster than you but you will gain that spell damage slower. So please.... Stop trying to confuse people. I dont think you have any clue on what you are talking about. The constant damage of a Indigon build is based on how fast he recover his mana. Not by how slow he can raise his damage.

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zoNiklv escreveu:

Essentially, we all spike on dmg and speed, but you do it less with less mana cost. I didn't do the math, but I trust people that did and it looks like 50 vs 60 is close to 35% more damage overall (more balls cast and recent mana spent kept at higher values) and more mobility.

Well there we go... You never played that build. The leech is almost all your mana per second + regen. Even RueRue WARN about mana regen cap. If I loot more then 1 item while on top of it, Im capped mana and Zerphi END. The power here is Warlord mark and increased max mana leech per second. With the mana regen being only bits on top of it that must be watched to not instantly cap. The only thing you achieve with a 50% indigon instead of a capped one is ramp up time being slower. You will end up with same mana cost as me and at that point the only thing that matter is how much mana you regain per second. So unless you talk about an initial burst on a boss where you have a few extra balls. It's irrelevant 99.99% of the time as this happen only once during the whole boss fight and deal no more dmg in Delve since your capped increase is based on the LEECH PER SECOND. The only change is how fast I get to that point and if I get there faster.


I strongly suggest you play the build before suggesting things that any Zerphi dont even want like a Watcher Eye with hits gained as mana or maths that simply dont work. Cause I read this and I can see you talk about mechanics of Hierro low life, Hierro CI, Witch CI and some that are totally alien in hope to make it work with a Zerphi build.

Damm, such resilience!

I will reply with only one thing here: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/358434462050025493/512681568481968138/unknown.png

Have fun! ;)

Indeed a funny picture. Must be painful to level a character so long and still not understand basic mechanics like Watcher eye, deep delving and Zerphi. Guess you have a lot of computer time.

Never doubt your logic, that's the motto here? Could actually squeeze more out of your budget gears. Call GGG, we need harder content! Oh wait, there is harder content that's someone is afraid to do.

Not getting into the middle of this fight, just throwing this down here as the math helped me understand the build, its limitations and where I need to go myself. Also I have been telling others about this build and said I would throw this down here. As reference, I've killed uber elder for the first time today and it felt amazing! I have been farming shaper a bunch. I don't think either of you two fighting are right or wrong, the build can obviously go either way but I find myself preferring MoM and acrobatics/phase:

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Let's do some basic math here and see how it works, because I am not sure which of you is right, or if either of you are wrong, which is the more likely scenario:


Basic math for our very important situations:::

Mana costs per second:
200 mana cost per frenzy at max indigon, with 5 casts per second (mine is just under this):
1k mana cost per second of Frenzy

Health regen per second with Zerphis:
200 mana cost per frenzy * 5 casts per second * Zerphis multiplier of 550% * assuming you are at the peak of casts so 3.8 seconds=
200*5.5*5*3.8=20900 hp per second

Mana leech per second:
2.5k dps in PoB per little bolt, assuming 2 bolts hit since we have GMP and volley (although likely more, 2 is safe for assumptions for the average hitbox) and 1.4% mana leech:
2500*2*5*.014=350 mana leeched per second from Frenzy alone
+ Warlords mark which is 2% of all damage, which means our VD! With a PoB of 600k per ball, we get 12k mana, or full mana.

Which means that at any given moment, assuming we are hitting our balls constantly and casting constantly, we have 2.8k mana in reserve. With 30% MoM, we can soak up to a max HP of:
X*.3=2800 X=9300hp character, off of one hit.
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Scenario:
You have 5k hp and 3k mana unreserved (as I have this right now, this will be what I base it off of), with roughly 450 mana regen per second, and that we are fully ramped up, meaning we get roughly 200 mana cost (as I do with fully ramped since mine is only a 5L) and 5 casts per second :

1) You get hit for 5k without MoM:
You're fine, you'll hit max life in .25 seconds and at the end of CWDT-Immortal Call, you'll be like new.

2) You get hit for 5k with MoM, meaning 3.5k to HP and 1.5k to mana:
With CWDT-Immortal Call, you'll be fine again, and with our regens to health and mana and mana leech, we will be fine!

3) You get hit for 6k without MoM:
You die

4) You get hit for 6k with MoM:
You are left with 1.8k HP and very little mana, but enough to mantain a few more casts of frenzy until mana regen. If you have no mana left, or 200 mana left, you still die. But if you have 1k mana left then you survive!


The real limitation of MoM is that mana leech is not instant, and if there was a way to make it instant, then MoM would be the clear winner. AS it is not, then MoM becomes a lot like acrobatics, 30% of the time you are above 600+ mana due to leeching and regen and inbetween attacks of frenzy, where as if you are below 2/3 of the time, then MoM is doing extremely little for you. Personally, I intend you raise my HP and mana pool as much more as possible to build up my mana regen and the HP wall.

Thanks,
OPAbra

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Edit for posterities sake:

I just killed uber elder deathless, I have MoM + 9% damage as mana on my watchers and it really does help. I don't think Cloak with this build would be good but I want to try and test it. Will let y'all know when I get it 6Led.

Well, your calculations have flaws (frenzy mana cost you use is low, basically is initial cost and not increased; you don't have 5 casts per second due to skipped attacks; frenzy dps is so miserable it regens nothing; warlord's mark is main source of leech at it caps at 20% of your mana per second, hence we need other forms of mana regen to boost damage).

But that's not the point. Point is that all mana lost due to MoM will be regained when using Watcher's Eye with 20% damage taken gained as mana. Which will be multiplied by 50% mana recovery and reach exactly 30% we lost.

Then I wouldn't count in MoM as effective HP here, due to mana going up and down all the time, you can get hit after spending it and protection will not work.

So there is that, but overall there is room for flexibility up until you hit the point where you are forced to go acro and low life. You can do all sorts of crazy stuff like: +1 Endurance charges, all the Hero starting mana regen nodes, connecting to Witch and running pure talent, same as running MoM is also a very viable option.

I'm closing on 1100 depth in my mine and at the moment I can still tank stuff, but later everything would just 1 shot you no matter what.

As for the chest I've used Cloak on all of my Uber Elder runs, that's a notable dps increase. For delves i'm using Coil, swapping to Cospris and for maps i use Inpulsa cuz I run them as LW + Arc. It's just faster.

Cloak is also our deep delve option #1 when going lowlife. Additional mana and regen is hard to go by.

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zoNiklv escreveu:

Well, your calculations have flaws (frenzy mana cost you use is low, basically is initial cost and not increased; you don't have 5 casts per second due to skipped attacks; frenzy dps is so miserable it regens nothing; warlord's mark is main source of leech at it caps at 20% of your mana per second, hence we need other forms of mana regen to boost damage).

But that's not the point. Point is that all mana lost due to MoM will be regained when using Watcher's Eye with 20% damage taken gained as mana. Which will be multiplied by 50% mana recovery and reach exactly 30% we lost.

Then I wouldn't count in MoM as effective HP here, due to mana going up and down all the time, you can get hit after spending it and protection will not work.

So there is that, but overall there is room for flexibility up until you hit the point where you are forced to go acro and low life. You can do all sorts of crazy stuff like: +1 Endurance charges, all the Hero starting mana regen nodes, connecting to Witch and running pure talent, same as running MoM is also a very viable option.

I'm closing on 1100 depth in my mine and at the moment I can still tank stuff, but later everything would just 1 shot you no matter what.

As for the chest I've used Cloak on all of my Uber Elder runs, that's a notable dps increase. For delves i'm using Coil, swapping to Cospris and for maps i use Inpulsa cuz I run them as LW + Arc. It's just faster.

Cloak is also our deep delve option #1 when going lowlife. Additional mana and regen is hard to go by.

Can you please , please open your profile to let us see your character?

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zoNiklv escreveu:

Well, your calculations have flaws (frenzy mana cost you use is low, basically is initial cost and not increased; you don't have 5 casts per second due to skipped attacks; frenzy dps is so miserable it regens nothing; warlord's mark is main source of leech at it caps at 20% of your mana per second, hence we need other forms of mana regen to boost damage).

But that's not the point. Point is that all mana lost due to MoM will be regained when using Watcher's Eye with 20% damage taken gained as mana. Which will be multiplied by 50% mana recovery and reach exactly 30% we lost.

Then I wouldn't count in MoM as effective HP here, due to mana going up and down all the time, you can get hit after spending it and protection will not work.

So there is that, but overall there is room for flexibility up until you hit the point where you are forced to go acro and low life. You can do all sorts of crazy stuff like: +1 Endurance charges, all the Hero starting mana regen nodes, connecting to Witch and running pure talent, same as running MoM is also a very viable option.

I'm closing on 1100 depth in my mine and at the moment I can still tank stuff, but later everything would just 1 shot you no matter what.

As for the chest I've used Cloak on all of my Uber Elder runs, that's a notable dps increase. For delves i'm using Coil, swapping to Cospris and for maps i use Inpulsa cuz I run them as LW + Arc. It's just faster.

Cloak is also our deep delve option #1 when going lowlife. Additional mana and regen is hard to go by.

could u post ur mapping setup, im trying to improve the speed clear with this build atm and kinda was thinking of buying +1 arc indigon and running arc instead of vd, is it even worth?