[3.15] Crimson Bow Gladiator, RoA + Puncture | Pure Bleed Build | All Content | In-depth

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Sick_Niss escreveu:

Could someone please tell me if resolute technique would have any sort of advantage in terms of DPS? Also, would a resolute technique tree result in more life through the tree? Not sure whether to do the resolute technique tree or crit and acrobatics... Thank you.

Resolute techniques results in way more damage and more life.

Before starting to build my current character I played around with a crit version on PoB, and to get the same damage I was ending up with 2k less life.
The nodes in duelist/marauder are efficient enough, especially with lioneye’s fall and cluster jewels, so no need to go out of your way for crit/dodge.

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Vulgaire escreveu:

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Vulgaire escreveu:

Hey, i'm wondering what are the better defensive options for endgame

Stuns, elemental aliments and oneshots are quite the problem...

Any suggestions?

The fortify anointment does feel nice, and my HP does not dip as much...

Any suggestions for Chilled/Frozen/Shocked?

Flasks?

I've been observing people who use my calculator for quite a while now. I'll be honest, i'm disappointed. Not many people use it, but that's fine. However half of the people who use the calculator didn't insert data properly. This is notorious for anyone who uses Assailum helmet, but completely ignores "Snipe Stage" which is necessary to calculate damage properly. I spotted people using "Target is Moving" option when they have it ticked in PoB already. This caused numbers above 10 millions (possible but very unlikely) when the reality is entirely different. Obviously those aren't the only errors.

At least problems with incorrect base physical damage are gone.

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eattherich92 escreveu:

Why do we not get crimson dance?

Requires ~4-6 times more hits to deal same damage as standard bleed. Why would anybody do this?

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Vulgaire escreveu:

Spoiler

Hey, i'm wondering what are the better defensive options for endgame

Stuns, elemental aliments and oneshots are quite the problem...

Any suggestions?

Endurance charge generation is one of the best defensive mechanics you can get on Gladiator.

Ailment avoidance is best acquired on flasks (Curse/Freeze+Chill/Shock/bleed removal life flask).

If your character movement is correct, you can avoid basically all oneshot mechanics.

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Sick_Niss escreveu:

Spoiler

Could someone please tell me if resolute technique would have any sort of advantage in terms of DPS? Also, would a resolute technique tree result in more life through the tree? Not sure whether to do the resolute technique tree or crit and acrobatics... Thank you.

FAQ: Have you thought about using Lioneye's Fall and taking melee nodes in Marauder's starting location?
A: Yes, it's a very viable alternative. However it heavily encourages armour as a defensive mechanic which i dislike in general. Performance-wise it's very similar to the passive tree i provide. Overall going to shadow area is easier for newbies and has smoother progression.


Side note since my current meme character uses armour as a defensive mechanic. I'm still not a big fan of it.

My build does not focus on crit in any way, it's simply extra bonus from using Farrul's Fur for QoL feature / classic build.

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cane_cane escreveu:

Spoiler

Resolute techniques results in way more damage and more life.

Before starting to build my current character I played around with a crit version on PoB, and to get the same damage I was ending up with 2k less life.
The nodes in duelist/marauder are efficient enough, especially with lioneye’s fall and cluster jewels, so no need to go out of your way for crit/dodge.

Please, don't spread misinformation. I thoroughly compared damage for both trees and they're nearly identical in damage. Life is slightly higher thanks to extra life nodes on the way and strength, but this can be solved with cluster jewels now.

RT helps with DPS if your accuracy is bad and makes sense for Lioneye's Fall type of bleed build. By going to right side you will get much higher accuracy and RT doesn't actually do much in that case. However always hitting enemies is a very nice perk, especially if you're using Split Arrow.

Little bit of crit is something that build gets for free, it's not a focus by any means. Crit bleed has never been a good idea.

Was testing a Watcher's Eye in PoB. I can't get the 10-15% faster bleed (while affected by Malevolence) to show up in the 'damage rate modifier'. I'm at 1.55 default with out. Can I just knock that up to 1.70 to simulate the 15% in the bleed calculator (Google sheet) ?

If that's how I should do the calculation, then it seems 20% DoT multi from Malevolence on a Watcher's Eye is about the same damage for me as 15% faster bleed, for 1/8th the price.

Cheers

By the way, great build. Was using your Caustic Arrow raider last season and I wanted to try this out after never playing a bleed build. Great fun, and really enjoying it. Took a while to get going though; felt like I needed to throw 5-8ex at it before single target became acceptable. Perfectly fine now though, and eating up content.

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DankawSL escreveu:

I've been observing people who use my calculator for quite a while now. I'll be honest, i'm disappointed. Not many people use it, but that's fine. However half of the people who use the calculator didn't insert data properly. This is notorious for anyone who uses Assailum helmet, but completely ignores "Snipe Stage" which is necessary to calculate damage properly. I spotted people using "Target is Moving" option when they have it ticked in PoB already. This caused numbers above 10 millions (possible but very unlikely) when the reality is entirely different. Obviously those aren't the only errors.



Please, don't spread misinformation. I thoroughly compared damage for both trees and they're nearly identical in damage. Life is slightly higher thanks to extra life nodes on the way and strength, but this can be solved with cluster jewels now.

RT helps with DPS if your accuracy is bad and makes sense for Lioneye's Fall type of bleed build. By going to right side you will get much higher accuracy and RT doesn't actually do much in that case. However always hitting enemies is a very nice perk, especially if you're using Split Arrow.

Little bit of crit is something that build gets for free, it's not a focus by any means. Crit bleed has never been a good idea.

Hey, thanks for your reply. I admit I had not had the time to check all your build, but I was commenting purely based on my experience.

I tried out few things from your inputs:
- Changing my RT tree with your evasion tree (my same gear, my same cluster jewels) I lose 10% dps, and 500 life. Much better than what I had theorycrafted (absolutely a bad idea to invest in crit like i was doing) but a bit worse.

- I tried using your calculator, but my DPS decreases as I increase the Snipe stages. Am i doing something wrong? As for the Split Arrow damage, your calculator estimates higher values than PoB fork. Is this also normal?
I filled in line #1 for Puncture, and #2 for Split Arrow by the way, in case you see something strange.

- I have a question about Ryslatha's Coil. Basically, looking at the wording and PoE wiki I am not sure it should actually scale bleed damage... I have opened this topic just yesterday https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2851748/page/1
Thoughts on the matter?

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Zarasi escreveu:

Spoiler

Was testing a Watcher's Eye in PoB. I can't get the 10-15% faster bleed (while affected by Malevolence) to show up in the 'damage rate modifier'. I'm at 1.55 default with out. Can I just knock that up to 1.70 to simulate the 15% in the bleed calculator (Google sheet) ?

If that's how I should do the calculation, then it seems 20% DoT multi from Malevolence on a Watcher's Eye is about the same damage for me as 15% faster bleed, for 1/8th the price.

Cheers

By the way, great build. Was using your Caustic Arrow raider last season and I wanted to try this out after never playing a bleed build. Great fun, and really enjoying it. Took a while to get going though; felt like I needed to throw 5-8ex at it before single target became acceptable. Perfectly fine now though, and eating up content.

Yep, you can do that. Technically you should also decrease bleed duration by ~9%, but it's not that big of a deal.

Yes, both mods are more or less the same. However Faster Bleeding lowers bleed duration which negatively impacts longer boss fights (Sirus / Shaper etc.).

This build used to be much cheaper and felt better to use before 3.9 patch hit. Overwhelming popularity caused prices to craft a decent bleed bow to skyrocket. Cheap to start, expensive for end game.

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cane_cane escreveu:

Spoiler

Hey, thanks for your reply. I admit I had not had the time to check all your build, but I was commenting purely based on my experience.

I tried out few things from your inputs:
- Changing my RT tree with your evasion tree (my same gear, my same cluster jewels) I lose 10% dps, and 500 life. Much better than what I had theorycrafted (absolutely a bad idea to invest in crit like i was doing) but a bit worse.

- I tried using your calculator, but my DPS decreases as I increase the Snipe stages. Am i doing something wrong? As for the Split Arrow damage, your calculator estimates higher values than PoB fork. Is this also normal?

- I have a question about Ryslatha's Coil. Basically, looking at the wording and PoE wiki I am not sure it should actually scale bleed damage... I have opened this topic just yesterday https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2851748/page/1
Thoughts on the matter?

Did you change your annointment to Cleaving? Because Dirty Techniques give significantly less damage compared to it. Also keep in mind that you get other benefits by using my tree like good flask duration and plenty of physical damage increases which boost bleedsplosions (for map clear). Attack speed should be higher too.

PoB is incapable of calculating bleed dps. Why else would i create external calculator for it? Yes, you should always have higher bleed damage output by using my calculator. Yes, if you're using Assailum and PoB fork, the calculator assumes you also use fork's "Snipe Stage" configuration which correctly applies damage multipliers. In that case, the only thing calculator does is modify attacks per second based on stage, which obviously decreases the higher stage you have on release. PoB fork having support for Assailum is great, but i quickly knew it would cause troubles for anybody using the calculator. The only thing i can do is assume certain situations.

EDIT: i see you edited your post. You need to insert Snipe's attack speed from PoB and simply change Snipe Stage config in there as well. Then you have to copy damage multiplier from Puncture again. Your Split Arrow apparently has 4 totems, and that's certainly not true. I actually changed everything myself, numbers should be correct.

FAQ: Are you sure Ryslatha's Coil works with bleed?
A: Yes, i'm certain. This video should dispel all your doubt

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DankawSL escreveu:

Spoiler

Did you change your annointment to Cleaving? Because Dirty Techniques give significantly less damage compared to it. Also keep in mind that you get other benefits by using my tree like good flask duration and plenty of physical damage increases which boost bleedsplosions (for map clear). Attack speed should be higher too.

PoB is incapable of calculating bleed dps. Why else would i create external calculator for it? Yes, you should always have higher bleed damage output by using my calculator. Yes, if you're using Assailum and PoB fork, the calculator assumes you also use fork's "Snipe Stage" configuration which correctly applies damage multipliers. In that case, the only thing calculator does is modify attacks per second based on stage, which obviously decreases the higher stage you have on release. PoB fork having support for Assailum is great, but i quickly knew it would cause troubles for anybody using the calculator. The only thing i can do is assume certain situations.

EDIT: i see you edited your post. You need to insert Snipe's attack speed from PoB and simply change Snipe Stage config in there as well. Then you have to copy damage multiplier from Puncture again. Your Split Arrow apparently has 4 totems, and that's certainly not true. I actually changed everything myself, numbers should be correct.

FAQ: Are you sure Ryslatha's Coil works with bleed?
A: Yes, i'm certain. This video should dispel all your doubt

Yep, first thing I made sure to change was the anoint to cleaving. Also I did not take the utility leech and flask nodes (since I did not take similar ones in my RT tree) and I had 4 spare points to grab a damage node, Hunter's Gambit close to Acrobatics. *small correction though, I lose 600 life instead of 500.

The calculator is really cool, thx for that! About the DoT multiplier though, maybe it's just the wording but your calculator says I have 90%, while I have 161% between gear and tree. That includes Physical DoT multi, DoT multi and DoT multi with bleeding.
I fixed the snipe dps, and thx for taking out the 4 totems. Pretty nice dps increase :)
I would be curious to know where PoB Fork is wrong by the way.

Interesting video about Ryslatha... So it would seem it's just bad wording on the belt.. maybe I will run some tests myself to understand thid better.
I would still not use it by the way since, as you said, on bow build with low atk speed you don't really want to risk such low rolls.

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cane_cane escreveu:

Spoiler

Yep, first thing I made sure to change was the anoint to cleaving. Also I did not take the utility leech and flask nodes (since I did not take similar ones in my RT tree) and I had 4 spare points to grab a damage node, Hunter's Gambit close to Acrobatics. *small correction though, I lose 600 life instead of 500.

The calculator is really cool, thx for that! About the DoT multiplier though, maybe it's just the wording but your calculator says I have 90%, while I have 161% between gear and tree. That includes Physical DoT multi, DoT multi and DoT multi with bleeding.
I fixed the snipe dps, and thx for taking out the 4 totems. Pretty nice dps increase :)
I would be curious to know where PoB Fork is wrong by the way.

Interesting video about Ryslatha... So it would seem it's just bad wording on the belt.. maybe I will run some tests myself to understand thid better.
I would still not use it by the way since, as you said, on bow build with low atk speed you don't really want to risk such low rolls.

Allright, checked myself and i know what's happening here. In short, you get higher damage because your tree is close to min-maxed while mine is aimed towards budget version and league start. I obviously compared my tree to Lioneye's Fall tree of the same level. This is a guide, not a build showcase like more than half of the threads. I'm not going to balance around players with close to infinite budget.

Continuing, here's few things you should be aware - without your belt you would have troubles capping resistances considering your current gear. You spend total 3 affixes to even get enough dexterity. And well... this obviously prevents you from using Ryslatha's Coil which is BiS belt for bleed. Period. There's more to a build than just "Life and damage" in PoB. I'm not gonna list everything.


If calculator gave wrong number, then it means you inserted incorrect data. I checked myself and it's in fact 171%, you likely forgot small passives from medium cluster jewels. Side note, for Assailum in specific you should force attacks instead of using time frame. With your abysmal attack speed, you won't even be able to execute a single attack within 1 second. Small tidbit.

PoB only calcutes average, but it doesn't care about time and amount of hit which increase dps. Fork calculates some things original doesn't, like Ryslatha's Coil and their poor attempt to "fix" 100% more damage bleed mod. Assailum calculations are also correct, but last time i checked it didn't apply Snipe's Stage to showcase true attack speed.


While i totally understand your scepticism, that's a good approach to have while browsing internet which is filled with misinformation. You should learn who's information to trust and who's info to question. Ryslatha's Coil is BiS, period. You'll do more damage on average with that belt and life+res amulet than your current setup.

Anyway, that's everything from me. Cutting the discussion because i already spent enough time on it. I should use it on making another guide i have planned instead.

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DankawSL escreveu:

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cane_cane escreveu:

Spoiler

Yep, first thing I made sure to change was the anoint to cleaving. Also I did not take the utility leech and flask nodes (since I did not take similar ones in my RT tree) and I had 4 spare points to grab a damage node, Hunter's Gambit close to Acrobatics. *small correction though, I lose 600 life instead of 500.

The calculator is really cool, thx for that! About the DoT multiplier though, maybe it's just the wording but your calculator says I have 90%, while I have 161% between gear and tree. That includes Physical DoT multi, DoT multi and DoT multi with bleeding.
I fixed the snipe dps, and thx for taking out the 4 totems. Pretty nice dps increase :)
I would be curious to know where PoB Fork is wrong by the way.

Interesting video about Ryslatha... So it would seem it's just bad wording on the belt.. maybe I will run some tests myself to understand thid better.
I would still not use it by the way since, as you said, on bow build with low atk speed you don't really want to risk such low rolls.

Spoiler

Allright, checked myself and i know what's happening here. In short, you get higher damage because your tree is close to min-maxed while mine is aimed towards budget version and league start. I obviously compared my tree to Lioneye's Fall tree of the same level. This is a guide, not a build showcase like more than half of the threads. I'm not going to balance around players with close to infinite budget.

Continuing, here's few things you should be aware - without your belt you would have troubles capping resistances considering your current gear. You spend total 3 affixes to even get enough dexterity. And well... this obviously prevents you from using Ryslatha's Coil which is BiS belt for bleed. Period. There's more to a build than just "Life and damage" in PoB. I'm not gonna list everything.


If calculator gave wrong number, then it means you inserted incorrect data. I checked myself and it's in fact 171%, you likely forgot small passives from medium cluster jewels. Side note, for Assailum in specific you should force attacks instead of using time frame. With your abysmal attack speed, you won't even be able to execute a single attack within 1 second. Small tidbit.

PoB only calcutes average, but it doesn't care about time and amount of hit which increase dps. Fork calculates some things original doesn't, like Ryslatha's Coil and their poor attempt to "fix" 100% more damage bleed mod. Assailum calculations are also correct, but last time i checked it didn't apply Snipe's Stage to showcase true attack speed.


While i totally understand your scepticism, that's a good approach to have while browsing internet which is filled with misinformation. You should learn who's information to trust and who's info to question. Ryslatha's Coil is BiS, period. You'll do more damage on average with that belt and life+res amulet than your current setup.

Anyway, that's everything from me. Cutting the discussion because i already spent enough time on it. I should use it on making another guide i have planned instead.

I had misunderstood which value to take for "base bleed dps". Found it now. Then PoB Fork really is way off with the calculation. 72% off for Puncture, 83% off for split arrow.

I did not avoid the flask/mana utility node because I think it is useless, but just to make a fair dps/life comparison with my current tree where such a good utility node is not there.
I will play around some more to optimize the evasion version on the tree based on my current gear. Before reading your guide I would not have thought that could be as good as RT.
I never felt the lack of attack speed though, for snipe or split arrow, but if I knew how much the damage would scale I would have gone with a bow base with smaller damage variance to ensure I do not fail 1shots on bosses and mobs.

From the beginning of my build, I never intended to use Ryslatha for the same reason you mentioned "There's more to a build than just "Life and damage" in PoB." at this point my character is finished, and I just ask because I was curious about the belt's effectiveness.

Hey thanks for all your comments, that was some good inputs. Gl with your next build!

I tried crafting a Quiver for my Essence drain character.. tried to Hunter slam Chaos damage over time multiplier and instead got this. Wondered if it's good for this build.

I can't find a quiver like this in market.. Offers are welcome.

I think you should add that every single bow should have a perfect fossil to begin with for high quality (I'd personally shoot for 25%+) as it is a relatively cheap way of getting both better dps and a higher chance of hitting a 5L or 6L.