How to craft efficiently early end game?

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Sadaukar#2191 escreveu:

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The_Song#4903 escreveu:

The crafting in this game is every bit as much a purely rng driven low-odds casino as the looting.
To be absolutely frank, truth is, this game doesn't have crafting.
If it's not sufficiently deterministic, it's not crafting, and what we have is well below the bar.

U might want to research a little bit. Crafting in 0.3 is leaps above 0.2 and before. Some may say it's even deterministic.

All the orbs that add mods and one at random.
All the orbs that remove or replace an existing mod pick one at random.
The methods to lock a mod to be untargetable by other crafting pick one at random.
The tools to reroll a mod's value roll it at random.
Random random random.

Can I force the crafting system to give me exactly what I want to make without utilizing crafting materials that use rng to determine the outcome?
No?
Then you don't get to call it deterministic.

Deterministic crafting doesn't mean "I spammed this chanced step until I got the desired result, then spammed this chanced step until it locked the desired result, then spammed this chanced step to get the next desired result..."

Deterministic crafting means "I went to the crafting bench, told it what I wanted, put in the necessary materials, and got exactly what I wanted, without rng being involved at any point."

I DID look into the updates to crafting.
It's still a casino, not crafting.
Counting cards doesn't make blackjack not blackjack.

you can make 5 div in an hour just running t15 abyss on any rare maps rolled decently, you will make a lot more if you min/max your character and spend a lot on maps

to begin with, your best bet is to pick the right character and archetype to play on a budget. if you are struggling in low tier maps, it is probably because the shell of your build itself is not very good for SSF or league starting.

unfortunately the game is poorly balanced atm so not everything will work with reasonable gear up to t15+. I would recommend going crossbows or bows and making sure you spend your currency on direct upgrades from trade, never sidegrades or straight up gambles.

An option for a caster league start would be essence drain contagion. I dunno about warrior, never took it to maps, but I know going just armour without block cap is really high investment (while using a shield is not enough damage) and usually characters that go EV/ES are just tankier with less investment

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The_Song#4903 escreveu:

Can I force the crafting system to give me exactly what I want to make without utilizing crafting materials that use rng to determine the outcome?

Yes u can, to an extend. That's why I said u gotta research. People found out certain interactions with abyss, omens and the new currency.

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The_Song#4903 escreveu:

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Sadaukar#2191 escreveu:

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The_Song#4903 escreveu:

The crafting in this game is every bit as much a purely rng driven low-odds casino as the looting.
To be absolutely frank, truth is, this game doesn't have crafting.
If it's not sufficiently deterministic, it's not crafting, and what we have is well below the bar.

U might want to research a little bit. Crafting in 0.3 is leaps above 0.2 and before. Some may say it's even deterministic.

All the orbs that add mods and one at random.
All the orbs that remove or replace an existing mod pick one at random.
The methods to lock a mod to be untargetable by other crafting pick one at random.
The tools to reroll a mod's value roll it at random.
Random random random.

Can I force the crafting system to give me exactly what I want to make without utilizing crafting materials that use rng to determine the outcome?
No?
Then you don't get to call it deterministic.

Deterministic crafting doesn't mean "I spammed this chanced step until I got the desired result, then spammed this chanced step until it locked the desired result, then spammed this chanced step to get the next desired result..."

Deterministic crafting means "I went to the crafting bench, told it what I wanted, put in the necessary materials, and got exactly what I wanted, without rng being involved at any point."

I DID look into the updates to crafting.
It's still a casino, not crafting.
Counting cards doesn't make blackjack not blackjack.

If you are arguing there is not deterministic crafting I can tell you there is. It just costs a lot. Some bases you have to start with a fracture if the tag does not exist, but it is possible to do deterministic craft with homogenous omen and higher tier exalts. You can also do two at once with the omen that makes it exalt twice. There is also perfect essence and delirious essence that guarentee BIS mods for some items.

What "deterministic" in PoE2 means usually is perfect affixes on all the slots that matter, and 1 good affix to finish. It is achievable by target removing things, making perfect of either prefix or suffix, and having the tags you need to guarentee good slams to finish.

It is "deterministic" because the odds are in your favour and if you get the item in the right position after a few tries it will always finish perfect with more currency

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Sadaukar#2191 escreveu:

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The_Song#4903 escreveu:

Can I force the crafting system to give me exactly what I want to make without utilizing crafting materials that use rng to determine the outcome?

Yes u can, to an extend. That's why I said u gotta research. People found out certain interactions with abyss, omens and the new currency.

My brother in literacy read my entire comment before you try to reply to it.

No, you can't. You cannot.
There is no "to an extent."
If you have to say "to an extent" then all your are saying is that it is not possible at all.

I want crafting where rng does not happen at any step.
I want a crafting system where chance is not a factor.
I want rolls to not happen.
No orbs that add a random mod.
No removers that pick a random mod.
No rerollers that do a random reroll.
No lockers that pick a random mod to lock.
No desecrations that make you pick from 3 random choices.

Counting cards does not make blackjack not blackjack.

I want to open a crafting bench, punch in the desired end result, insert ingredients, and get the desired end result. In one click.

And on top of all of that, being able to actually craft your gear should not be an specifically endgame activity you need endgame wealth do. You should be able to functionally be a crafter the entire time. From level 1 on your first character.

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AverBeg7#1689 escreveu:

It is "deterministic" because the odds

Oxymoron.
If there are odds to consider, chance to deal with, it's not deterministic crafting.

Blackjack is still blackjack when you're counting cards.

Deterministic crafting means punching in the desired end result, inserting the ingredients, and getting the exact result you asked for, without any rng.
A one step process.

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The_Song#4903 escreveu:

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AverBeg7#1689 escreveu:

It is "deterministic" because the odds

Oxymoron.
If there are odds to consider, chance to deal with, it's not deterministic crafting.

Blackjack is still blackjack when you're counting cards.

Deterministic crafting means punching in the desired end result, inserting the ingredients, and getting the exact result you asked for, without any rng.
A one step process.

You are arguing my phrasing in a literal sense while I'm presenting you obvious evidence that deterministic crafting does exist in a practical sense.

If you get the right 2-3 mods, you can target homogenous perfect exalt 5 mods the same tag, and then have a desecrated mod to finish, that you can then target remove and infinitely try over and over with omen of light.

It is deterministic if the mods in the crafting pool allow it, once the item has passed the first check.

Like I said, there are also Perfect and Corrupted essences that give a specific mod. 30% movement speed on boots is BIS, because you can use it on 2 socket boots and add 100% effect of socketed items after. 20-30% increased global defences only has a defence tag and extremely strong with the other defence prefixes, so it is perfect for crafting perfect prefixes and suffixes on an amulet.

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AverBeg7#1689 escreveu:

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The_Song#4903 escreveu:

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AverBeg7#1689 escreveu:

It is "deterministic" because the odds

Oxymoron.
If there are odds to consider, chance to deal with, it's not deterministic crafting.

Blackjack is still blackjack when you're counting cards.

Deterministic crafting means punching in the desired end result, inserting the ingredients, and getting the exact result you asked for, without any rng.
A one step process.

You are arguing my phrasing in a literal sense while I'm presenting you obvious evidence that deterministic crafting does exist in a practical sense.

If you get the right 2-3 mods, you can target homogenous perfect exalt 5 mods the same tag, and then have a desecrated mod to finish, that you can then target remove and infinitely try over and over with omen of light.

It is deterministic if the mods in the crafting pool allow it, once the item has passed the first check.

Like I said, there are also Perfect and Corrupted essences that give a specific mod. 30% movement speed on boots is BIS, because you can use it on 2 socket boots and add 100% effect of socketed items after. 20-30% increased global defences only has a defence tag and extremely strong with the other defence prefixes, so it is perfect for crafting perfect prefixes and suffixes on an amulet.

Deterministic crafting only exists in a practical sense if it exists in a literal sense. Period.
Open crafting bench, punch in desired result, submit ingredients, get desired result, no rng, no spamming.

You yourself opened by saying "If you get the right 2-3 mods..." immediately providing obvious evidence that it's not deterministic crafting. If it was, you wouldn't need the word "if". There would be no first check to pass.
You also mention trying over and over. If it was deterministic, you wouldn't need to. There wouldn't be "tries", just "guarantee" that works the first time around. No need to farm multiple omens of light before bothering.
You're counting cards in blackjack. It's still blackjack.

And more importantly, crafting should accessible and feasible throughout the entire game.
Crafting that requires getting rich first also doesn't count as being available in a practical sense. By the time you could do it, the point is gone.
We want to craft gear to reach the end with, not have to reach the end to craft our gear. Most players will never even see perfect orbs.
It should not be something only wealthy end-endgame characters get to do.
Your first character on a new league should already be able to engage with crafting in act 1.

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The_Song#4903 escreveu:

Deterministic crafting only exists in a practical sense if it exists in a literal sense. Period.
Open crafting bench, punch in desired result, submit ingredients, get desired result, no rng, no spamming.

You yourself opened by saying "If you get the right 2-3 mods..." immediately providing obvious evidence that it's not deterministic crafting. If it was, you wouldn't need the word "if". There would be no first check to pass.
You also mention trying over and over. If it was deterministic, you wouldn't need to. There wouldn't be "tries", just "guarantee" that works the first time around. No need to farm multiple omens of light before bothering.
You're counting cards in blackjack. It's still blackjack.

And more importantly, crafting should accessible and feasible throughout the entire game.
Crafting that requires getting rich first also doesn't count as being available in a practical sense. By the time you could do it, the point is gone.
We want to craft gear to reach the end with, not have to reach the end to craft our gear. Most players will never even see perfect orbs.
It should not be something only wealthy end-endgame characters get to do.
Your first character on a new league should already be able to engage with crafting in act 1.

I dunno if you even read what you are writing, but I am telling you with 2-3 affixes you can deterministically craft 6 exact mods. You can either get these affixes quite easily with Perfect Transmute + essence or you can deterministically get them from the right base item.

You can argue with the wind about the words I chose to say it and how specific parts of the craft take more tries, but that doesn't make it "not deterministic". By definition it is. When you craft the magic base it's only T1 affixes, when you add to go to rare you choose where it adds, when you click the essence, when you annul target prefix/suffix, when you click the homegenous/ perfect exalt it's guarenteed, these are all deterministic. You can make it so the only outcome is the expected one, if it is the right method.

Just go look up how people are crafting stuff in 0.3, it's such a weird hill you choose to die on.

Crafting exists for budget characters, you gamble for a base with decent affixes and then you desecrate. As early as act 2 you can start desecrating stuff. You buy items that are "settle" items, instead of all t1 you get all t2 or t3, etc.

If you are suggesting people stuck in t8s or lower should be able to craft GG items because they need it, then you are just playing a bad build man sorry.

It might seem dumb to someone who is having trouble progressing, but you need an insane character to obtain insane items. That's just how ARPG works. If you are stuck in low tier content you should go back to theory because upgrading something that isn't working doesn't make it work. Just put that idea away and save it for when GGG buffs it

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AverBeg7#1689 escreveu:

unfortunately the game is poorly balanced atm so not everything will work with reasonable gear up to t15+. I would recommend going crossbows or bows and making sure you spend your currency on direct upgrades from trade, never sidegrades or straight up gambles.

I think this is one of the core issues why it might be more difficult for others. Basically if you wanna make more money, pick the proven career that makes money and gives results. If you try something else, you risk being poor.

Sadly I keep choosing the latter because I don't wanna be a meta slave