Which ability scales best with cast speed and spell echo?

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raics escreveu:

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Unacceptable escreveu:

I see. So Incinerate and Flameburst it is?
Or is there some more I should experiment with?

Xcode mentioned storm spells and Ball lightning because they overlap so using them is effectively very similar to incinerate, you have a warmup time so higher cast speed helps you reach max dps value quicker.

All right :) I tested Incinerate and my god the damage increase coming from Storm call 0_o
I'll test ball of lightning vs Incinerate/Flame Blast when I get it.
Thanks.

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Unacceptable escreveu:

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raics escreveu:

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Unacceptable escreveu:

I see. So Incinerate and Flameburst it is?
Or is there some more I should experiment with?

Xcode mentioned storm spells and Ball lightning because they overlap so using them is effectively very similar to incinerate, you have a warmup time so higher cast speed helps you reach max dps value quicker.

All right :) I tested Incinerate and my god the damage increase coming from Storm call 0_o
I'll test ball of lightning vs Incinerate/Flame Blast when I get it.
Thanks.

Incinerate is really OP. It matches the damage output of most spell crit builds without having to invest in crit. Doesn't mean there aren't a large variety of spells that are still really good.

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raics escreveu:

Besides the obvious Incinerate, probably any spell that scales damage harder and has few good supports, like Arc, EK or Ball Lightning.

there is no need to waste a link for cast speed/echo on ball lightning, there are plenty supports better than these two

Just because it hasn't been mentioned yet; lightning tendrils

its effectively got the same cast speed as incinerate being at 0.8 with 4 quick repeats of the damage so its really 0.2

But why would you use lightning tendrils when incinerate does literally everything better :P

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sidtherat escreveu:

there is no need to waste a link for cast speed/echo on ball lightning, there are plenty supports better than these two

Agreed about FC unless you're using Pledge, but Echo is hard to beat, no other generic support has such a high dps multi/mana ratio, except penetrations, of course, but those require having a dominant ele damage type. Kinda funny that it uses less mana (as in cost over time) than Faster Casting.

I'm not entirely sold on knocback, it's a good defensive gem but if you got a lot of cast speed enemies end up riding on first few balls instead of having the whole train run them over, which just drags things out. Depends on what kind of build you're playing, I guess.

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sidtherat escreveu:

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raics escreveu:

Besides the obvious Incinerate, probably any spell that scales damage harder and has few good supports, like Arc, EK or Ball Lightning.

there is no need to waste a link for cast speed/echo on ball lightning, there are plenty supports better than these two

Added Lightning Damage is actually pretty mediocre on Ball Lightning. It's about 32% more damage, but if you have damage on your weapon and/or Herald of Thunder then the return from the support gem will be less. On the other hand, the more balls you have out, the more damage you do, so at least Echo is a really good support for Ball Lightning.

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XCodesLIVE escreveu:

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sidtherat escreveu:

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raics escreveu:

Besides the obvious Incinerate, probably any spell that scales damage harder and has few good supports, like Arc, EK or Ball Lightning.

there is no need to waste a link for cast speed/echo on ball lightning, there are plenty supports better than these two

Added Lightning Damage is actually pretty mediocre on Ball Lightning. It's about 32% more damage, but if you have damage on your weapon and/or Herald of Thunder then the return from the support gem will be less. On the other hand, the more balls you have out, the more damage you do, so at least Echo is a really good support for Ball Lightning.

added lightning evens the variance of ball lightning - it is worth it alone for the consistency factor (the quality is also nice). it makes shoot-n-forget playstyle possible because i can quickly determine how many casts are needed for mobs in given map. clear speed is rarely linear function of dps and in this case dps is the least important factor of them all

usually i need only one ball for most mobs and i definitely am not a fan of echo-root. with this build im pretty much always on the move and echo simply makes the entire experience slow and clunky

for more damage id replace added lightning with crit multi (it is a crit build after all) but then the reflect can be really really scary (and due to lightning high variance hard to predict - there is SIGNIFICANT difference between low and high rolls and one can fall into the false sense of security and cast one ball too many).

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I'm not entirely sold on knocback, it's a good defensive gem but if you got a lot of cast speed enemies end up riding on first few balls instead of having the whole train run them over, which just drags things out. Depends on what kind of build you're playing, I guess.

KB is there for safety. there are literally less than 5 enemies in entire game that cannot be knocked back. due to AI most enemies will prioritize moving toward player instead of using ranged ability. it is survivability mechanic and i have to say one of the strongest ive seen.

and - for most packs one needs 1-2 balls and the cast speed is mostly irrelevant.

the drawback - loot frequently drops 'somewhere'

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sidtherat escreveu:

and - for most packs one needs 1-2 balls and the cast speed is mostly irrelevant.

Yes, I assumed you were going for few, powerful balls which is the scenario where it makes sense to swap echo for knockback. Unfortunately I was playing it non-crit in 1m and with beyonders popping like mushrooms it usually takes quite a few casts to clear the screen.

Like I said, depends on what you're trying to do.

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By the way, it would be nice to see lightning balls grow with AoE bonus.

For packs, sure, one or two powerballs is fine, but I use Ball Lightning at least as much for single-target and wanted better single-target damage output from it. I also normalize my high-variance damage by just hitting more often with more balls. I still clear most packs with 2 balls, although I'll admit that some need 4, but my damage against bosses is pretty legit, and I still leech pretty effectively against bosses, too (exception is Haast, because he slows down my ball shooting).

This isn't a damage-scale; but if you have a Cybil's Paw or two, you can get some insane LGoH from Ball Lightning with Spell Echo and FC.