Comprehensive feedback

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Moosifer escreveu:

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Qarl escreveu:

Just posting to let people know the feedback has been read and discussed, and certainly will make an impact on future changes.

And, yes, this is yet another "not long winded" post.

We will try give a more full reply in time. Currently there is a lot of work going on in the office on 0.10.5, as we need to have it ready early.

I'd love to know what direction you guys are going with alot of these changes but know this isn't a "fuck ggg" thread, I love this game and I want to see you guys take it down a route that opens up options to players.

Also I see what you did in your 2nd sentence, proving that you read the whole thread.

I love you guys, please take this as feedback from a nolifer who wants improvement rather than a support on the verge of quitting (probably going to log on soon anyways, fuck netflix).

It would be preferable, in general, if GGG was more open on how they plan on fixing these issues instead of leaving people in the dark

At least its more genuine and people have a better idea of the direction the game is going to take. If GGG is not at that state yet, then they should just say so

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DoubleSmiggins escreveu:

After having thought about it, I can conceive of one problem with making melee AoEs like Cleave and GS support gems. New low-level AoE melee skills will have to be devised, as otherwise there will be no low-level melee AoE skills which may well bum people out, especially new players who could feel frustrated about having to beat each monster in the face one at a time until they get, I 'unno, Leap Slam at Brutus. I agree that it would be worth it, but there'd have to be something to replace what is leaving.

Ideas?

that's every bow build now. Have some single target AOEs like infernal blow (something that's an AOE on attack rather than on mob death though) then give the supports in act 2 like all ranged builds deal with.

I would rather GGG put more effort into balancing the game and fixing glaring and obvious problems rather than pushing content for contents sake

When I hear Chris say things like "I wont be happy until there are 100+ active skills", I metaphorically hang my head in shame

Obviously the game does need content (and imho, finishing act3/act4 should be highest priority because of how silly/retarded the end game currently is), however setting some arbitrary benchmark like "1 skill a week" when it isn't in the best interests of PoE is a problem.

Yes you need to release skills, but you don't need to overkill it. Heck the game would be fine with another 20 more active skills than it has currently, but priorities are priorities, and what the game needs more right now is a few guys (including that skill guy who I assume is now currently working on releasing a skill a week) , to sit down, balance and brainstrom the heck out of the game as to its massive fundamental issues it has.

This game is doing the exact same problem LoL did, instead of LoL fixing glaring issues with the game when it was in beta (I was one of the original 30 beta testers for LoL), their top priority was releasing a new champion every week instead of fixing fundamental flaws the game had, and its showing now with LoL having a ridiculously stale metagame compared to its competitor DotA2. In contrast DotA2 (which is a game I play), IceFrog has at many points during the game not release any content (for periods of months) if the game has some serious balance/gameplay issues. He would ignore releasing content and instead focus on fixing the issues at hand. IceFrog only ever released content for the game when the current state of the game was relatively fine

GGG should adopt the same attitude, its going to be much harder to fix issues with the game when its properly released than right now when its still beta. And by fix, I mean proper fixes, some of these issues are so fundamental they are not really going to be solved with bandaids such as number tweaks, they require proper attention and effort

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deteego escreveu:

I would rather GGG put more effort into balancing the game and fixing glaring and obvious problems rather than pushing content for contents sake


GGG should adopt the same attitude, its going to be much harder to fix issues with the game when its properly released than right now when its still beta. And by fix, I mean proper fixes, some of these issues are so fundamental they are not really going to be solved with bandaids such as number tweaks, they require proper attention and effort

I so much agree with you deteego.

I am bitching about the desync and accuracy of the gameplay a few days now. But that has all to do with the first two skills they released recently and especialy whirlwind. It made me very depressed to see that they proudly released a new skill that had so much desync issues and on top of that 'character control loss during cast time'. It shows me that GGG is not fixing there game #1, but instead there focused on crap content that will push people away.

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Patsboem escreveu:

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deteego escreveu:

I would rather GGG put more effort into balancing the game and fixing glaring and obvious problems rather than pushing content for contents sake


GGG should adopt the same attitude, its going to be much harder to fix issues with the game when its properly released than right now when its still beta. And by fix, I mean proper fixes, some of these issues are so fundamental they are not really going to be solved with bandaids such as number tweaks, they require proper attention and effort

I so much agree with you deteego.

I am bitching about the desync and accuracy of the gameplay a few days now. But that has all to do with the first two skills they released recently and especialy whirlwind. It made me very depressed to see that they proudly released a new skill that had so much desync issues and on top of that 'character control loss during cast time'. It shows me that GGG is not fixing there game #1, but instead there focused on crap content that will push people away.

This is the main reason why I am saying that GGG needs to get out of the "we need constantly release a skill" mindset.

The thing is, and this always happens, when you release new content, it needs to be balanced. I have been in so many beta games for so long that this is pretty much given and historically empirically true. Unfortunately, PoE doesn't have unlimited labor. The effort that is working on balancing that new content is diverted away from balancing the more glaring issues in the game.

I am not saying that content doesn't need to be released, and in some cases new content does need to be released to balance the game (melee support gems and Act3/Act4 are prominent examples) however, the game doesn't, right now, need another 100 active skill gems (or an extra skill gem every week)

I am saying this right now, if GGG don't fix this problem properly, and immediately, they never will. When the game goes into release mode, it basically becomes semi frozen (every game goes through this stage). Fundamental mechanics are often set in stone, and game companies err much more on releasing content rather than trying to fix current content, because in often doing so they will break the game (and its even worse with a game that has an online economy with persistance like PoE does)

As an example, I think that IQ/IR is a terrible mod for items apart from maps, and should have never been implemented. Your reward for loot should be dictated by the difficulty of the content you are going through, not some mod that your gear has. If PoE was to remove this however, it would break certain uniques (what would happen with people that are paying 5 ex on Anavarious Gold Ring?) and screw up items in general

Doing massive changes like this are painful, but they have to be done sooner than later, otherwise it will stick with the game forever

I think people in general will admire GGG more if they take the guts and fix these issues properly and in a more unique way (just like GGG did with the skill/passive system) rather than rubber banding. I use to be of the opinion that melee should be something that needs to be balanced over time, but when I think about it harder, I believe thats probably the incorrect way to approach this issue because of the attitude that such a workflow process entails

Hey Devs, just wanted to come in and let you know that I think that the shadow staff stance should be changed back.

It was probably the coolest thing about a shadow staff build, and now its gone.

Yeah its not as realistic, but damn guys, why the change?

More thoughts on the feedback, specifically to melee support gem suggestion:

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Cleave, sweep, GS and lightning strike should be SUPPORT skills. I know this is a little strange but have them work off shit like heavy strike or dual strike. Limit what they can be used with and how they function and everything. Ice shot for example has no added damage effectiveness but add LMP to it and it then has 70% of it’s effectiveness. Do the same thing with heavy strike and infernal blow. Lower their damage effectiveness (possibly to just 100%) then when you add cleave to say dual strike, it takes it down to 70%. This gives options to builds. Say I want an infernal blow GSer. I link the two, it will do less damage than single target but I can stack fire damage and have a very effective AOE that’s truly different from a GS build or an infernal blow build. Also when adding these new skills I can have 4-5 options on how to make them different rather than having a different skill, with the same supports and almost the exact same build.

I could imagine going even further in this by making LMP and GMP add another target hit to single-target skills--LMP adding 1 target, GMP adding 2 targets beyond first.
Imagine Heavy Strike that could hit 3 targets, primary target for full damage and 2 others for % of the primary. The percentage should be used to balance the skill out so it is not overpowered. I would love to have minor AOE tied to primary attack skill for situation where major AOE is not required--2 or 3 monsters comming at you should be a situation where major AOE is not effective due to small amount of monsters or their high HP. This is where I would use my Heavy Strike modified with LMP/GMP.

Now going back to original suggestion, I would also love to see that primary attack skills would give different modification to support gems such as Cleave. These modification do not necessarily need to be the same as the original skill but would differ by each support gem--Cleave would get stacking fire dot from Infernal Blow but Sweep would get minor explosion upon monster death. This would make the skill choice even more interesting and not only tied to the weapon currently used.

Introducing melee support gems such as Cleave, Sweep or LMP/GMP would require re-balancing of damage output on these skills. Cleave as an example, the skill has its own native DPS, which is currently modified/increased by support gems like MPD, AFD or concentrated effect. Changing Cleave into support gem would effectively remove one support gem slot from the equation. The balancing should be done in a way that Cleave as support gem would be the same DPS as Cleave as standalone skill.

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Qarl escreveu:

Just posting to let people know the feedback has been read and discussed, and certainly will make an impact on future changes.

You had tons of feedback in CB.

You had perfect feedback the first OB weeks after the abysmal changes.


Broken mechanics(mana) get defended via:
Yes, we want resources to be constrained so that they are stronger game mechanics.

EK/Beartrap:
Similar"I don't think it's broken"

Yes it's clearly not broken if a skill has a high damage added fire damage adds 300+ fire damage and hatred 200 cold damage(without any modifier) while other skills don't even get to see 100 with added fire damage and Auras aren't even working.


Then there are numermous stealth nerfs that throw away the faith in you.

You want the game to be massbotted? You are on a good way towards it. If your goal is an MMO then say it and don't sell it as Action RPG and the funny thing is, you don't even have a simple memory scanner implemented. The open source public injecting hacks aren't even manually mapped or try to hide in any way. You know how hookshark works?
There isn't a single step taken against Botterboard users aka D2jsp, while the solution would be that simple.

Give us usercode leagues and you will see where players will tend to play. Even it some work to enable usercode functions.

Even some kinds of desynch are possible to reduce if you add something like:

if(playermoving)
if(damagedealttoplayer || stunnedplayer)
OOS(Player);

as usercode.

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I'd love to know what direction you guys are going....

This is exactly what I want. Almost every patch since OB contains kicks in the nuts in the eyes of an ARPG player.
If you want to go 6 Player MMO say so. I want usercode leagues because the games goes a totally different direction.
It takes time to enable such a thing but you could launch leagues with many different settings and see which settings are prefered by players. Even a Closed Beta settings league would have more players.

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GGG should adopt the same attitude, its going to be much harder to fix issues with the game when its properly released than right now when its still beta.

There are many gameplay issues which are easy to fix but GGG tends to go into another direction.
Currently the game is easy to bot and too much of an MMO.
Chris stated once the game should be, unappealing and impossible to bot.

The crafting system is the best I have ever seen. Yet it gets ruined by chance orb nerfs and abysmal rewards.

D2 1.10 had so much potential. But instead of many short ladders 2 months max and high drop rates, they made it the most cheated game by far and exactly this may turn PoE into a cheatfestival over time.

Currently the devs only killing ways of play without searching the cause.
Why do people use fillers->Bad drops
Why do people quit dropping desynch->Many reasons

This is gameplay stuff which is easier to fix, since it doesn't require much coding.

Harder problems would be for example the excessive Standard Templar Library abuse so the game loads faster without SSD/Ramdisk.

Optimizing Multithreading would be something else the game needs.

Also how effects, tiles etc are loaded isn't really a optimal solution and players with cooler hards tend to crash other players by overheating their GPU or cause graphical artifacts.

don't die on me little buddy!

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Moosifer escreveu:

don't die on me little buddy!

He's not going anywhere =)