👻3.20👻 Kay's Summoner💥SRS Bomber💀Poison SRS💀Melee SRS🕷️Spiders💀Skeleton Mages

Hello, played some time ago. (delve league)
Will do this one after a challenge from a friends

I have a question simple with those changes that feels like big nerfed :
Skelle builds (warrior and/or mage) seems really impacted,
Will i suffer to push my witch or... will be just slightly hard ? ^^"


And what to think a build around the new Alberon's warpath + From dust + Iron mass ?

(currently looking with changes for skelle mage also)

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liucao escreveu:

Hello, played some time ago. (delve league)
Will do this one after a challenge from a friends

I have a question simple with those changes that feels like big nerfed :
Skelle builds (warrior and/or mage) seems really impacted,
Will i suffer to push my witch or... will be just slightly hard ? ^^"


And what to think a build around the new Alberon's warpath + From dust + Iron mass ?

(currently looking with changes for skelle mage also)

There is not so big impact on regular both skellies.

And i'm not the boss of skellies, but if we speak just about numbers i do not think Iron Mass without 50% more added damage may now outscale so easily regular skellies DPS.

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CantripN escreveu:

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kayella escreveu:

Guardian can get block cap without offering, so can use Flesh offering. He also has 40% ias from ascendancy.

Necro needs Bone offering for block cap. and she only has 10% ias on ascendancy.

A bit of a blasphemy here, but why not just go for Spell Suppression instead of Block? You get to use better gear, too.

I was thinking about your question, even though it's not directed to me.

I think what you meant to say was, why not go for Spell Suppression combined with high armor to handle Physical mitigation? I'm asking for my own edification, not to question you :)

Just brainstorming here, but personally, I like the block route because this can be combined with a life or ES on block mechanic which will really help sustain. Plus, if you're going with a shield you are probably already trying to build in armour, so you're getting great phys dmg mitigation as well as a side effect.

Even SS at 100% won't guarantee you won't die from taking a mega hit because the calculation is random for how much dmg it prevents (right?). Spell BLock is 100% dmg avoided (but yes, only 75% of the time).

I guess from a logistics point of you, which is BETTER:

Stop all spell damage 75% of the time or stop a random amount of spell damage every time? LOL. Heck I dunno.

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DontRepairYourselfMind escreveu:

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Figgleton escreveu:

Thoughts on looking at Iron Mass this league for a mid league build with new Alberons?

In current state both skelle are agressive by default, which means what they says "feck you summoner" and run offsreen to fight mobs.
With this bots they will say "feck mobs" and follow summoner.

Boots only looks good, but in fact they will cut your DPS by at least 1/3, more real what they will break agressive AI and halve+++ your dps. They also will not work with mages as stated in item desc.

Maybe some good interactions will come later, but for now - hell no.

Why would skeletons stop being aggressive just because they follow you?
Golems, Zombies and Spectres et.c. already follow you.
It's not like Aggressive mods on them don't work.

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Boschmorden escreveu:

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CantripN escreveu:

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kayella escreveu:

Guardian can get block cap without offering, so can use Flesh offering. He also has 40% ias from ascendancy.

Necro needs Bone offering for block cap. and she only has 10% ias on ascendancy.

A bit of a blasphemy here, but why not just go for Spell Suppression instead of Block? You get to use better gear, too.

I was thinking about your question, even though it's not directed to me.

I think what you meant to say was, why not go for Spell Suppression combined with high armor to handle Physical mitigation? I'm asking for my own edification, not to question you :)

Just brainstorming here, but personally, I like the block route because this can be combined with a life or ES on block mechanic which will really help sustain. Plus, if you're going with a shield you are probably already trying to build in armour, so you're getting great phys dmg mitigation as well as a side effect.

Even SS at 100% won't guarantee you won't die from taking a mega hit because the calculation is random for how much dmg it prevents (right?). Spell BLock is 100% dmg avoided (but yes, only 75% of the time).

I guess from a logistics point of you, which is BETTER:

Stop all spell damage 75% of the time or stop a random amount of spell damage every time? LOL. Heck I dunno.

Spell Suppression at 100% prevents 53% of Spell Damage, 100% of the time, actually. It's pretty freaking good, since there's no RNG there at all, it just cuts it by more than half no matter what.

Both are good... I mean, I have a guide for that if you wanna check it out, I just won't post it here in Kay's guide.

I went with Evasion (+Grace), Armor (+Determination) and 100% Spell Suppression.

Still learning.

And btw, I already talked your build(s) up on /r/pathofexilebuilds subreddit lol. I am still deciding between your "take" and Kayellas.

Regardless, I think both of you are smart and I love different takes on builds.

I'm leaning guardian right now.

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Boschmorden escreveu:

Still learning.

And btw, I already talked your build(s) up on /r/pathofexilebuilds subreddit lol. I am still deciding between your "take" and Kayellas.

Regardless, I think both of you are smart and I love different takes on builds.

I'm leaning guardian right now.

Keep in mind Kay is a god-tier minion build-maker, and I design builds that are SSF-friendly (since that's what I play, so I can't rely on things like Aegis Aurora).

Either version will likely be able to do all content.

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

Why would skeletons stop being aggressive just because they follow you?
Golems, Zombies and Spectres et.c. already follow you.
It's not like Aggressive mods on them don't work.

At first... I totally not meant what they can't be agressive. I only mean what follow in terms of game AI is bullshit.

Golems, spectres and zombies are "follow me" by default. They can be switched to agressive by default with some items and when you attack or use prey mark. With very few exceptions of good mobs default AI (eg SD).

SRS or skellies are agressive by default. And now skellies may be switched to follow you. Sure, it can be done like they will just have infinity duration and just teleported to you... But i do not think about so good variant...


Now then we know base, we can do the math:
1) In which case (agressive or follow) case you will deal more damage to, lets say Eater of worlds/Uber shaper/Maven? Pick any. Agressive - you just summon and they will try to attack nearest enemies all the time they live. In case of follow AI you need to stop running around except few exceptions (hehe) or maintain mark (which also stops you) or be near enemy to let them do the damage. In this fights you move 99% of time, what means you greatly CUT ur own DPS.
Even primordial agressive switch sometimes works like shit, cuz there is combination of follow and agressive.
2) Follow AI, as i explain already, force you to stop or maintain mark or even block summons DPS, which also mean what you will have less defensive opportunities.

This things are mostly notable to see between default zombies and default srs/skellies.

This is how this works and if you wanna max you dps/defense, you wanna have pure agressive AI. Not follow<>agressive things.

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DontRepairYourselfMind escreveu:

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Deadandlivin escreveu:

Why would skeletons stop being aggressive just because they follow you?
Golems, Zombies and Spectres et.c. already follow you.
It's not like Aggressive mods on them don't work.

At first... I totally not meant what they can't be agressive. I only mean what follow in terms of game AI is bullshit.

Golems, spectres and zombies are "follow me" by default. They can be switched to agressive by default with some items and when you attack or use prey mark. With very few exceptions of good mobs default AI (eg SD).

SRS or skellies are agressive by default. And now skellies may be switched to follow you. Sure, it can be done like they will just have infinity duration and just teleported to you... But i do not think about so good variant...


Now then we know base, we can do the math:
1) In which case (agressive or follow) case you will deal more damage to, lets say Eater of worlds/Uber shaper/Maven? Pick any. Agressive - you just summon and they will try to attack nearest enemies all the time they live. In case of follow AI you need to stop running around except few exceptions (hehe) or maintain mark (which also stops you) or be near enemy to let them do the damage. In this fights you move 99% of time, what means you greatly CUT ur own DPS.
Even primordial agressive switch sometimes works like shit, cuz there is combination of follow and agressive.
2) Follow AI, as i explain already, force you to stop or maintain mark or even block summons DPS, which also mean what you will have less defensive opportunities.

This things are mostly notable to see between default zombies and default srs/skellies.

This is how this works and if you wanna max you dps/defense, you wanna have pure agressive AI. Not follow<>agressive things.

Follow is fine. I think you're talking about minions being Defensive like they become from Meatshield support.

Minions have 3 different combat stances:
- Neutral: Zombies, golems and spectres are naturally neutral. This means that their acqussition range is ~40 yards. Meaning, if an enemy is within ~40 yards of you, they will aggro the enemy and try to kill it. That's why, if you stand at max range from bosses, neutral minions won't attack them cause they're outside of the Acqusition range.
- Aggressive: Minions can be made aggressive with Convoking Wand mods or Feeding Frenzy. Skeletons are aggressive by default. Aggressive minions have an acqusition range of ~80 yards meaning, if an enemy is within 80 yards of you, they will seek out and attack it.
- Defensive: Defensive minion shave an acqusition rnage of ~10 yards. Meaning, if a monster is 15 yards away from you, your defensive minions wont attack it.

That's all there is to it.
If a minion follows you or not is irrelevant. Minion following you just means that if there's nothing to attack within your acquisition range, your minions will follow you. While you're running, aggressive minions will try to kill anything within ~80 yards of you, neutral minions will only kill things within ~40 yards of you.

Follow is not a stance for minions. That's not how they work. Passive minions will ALWAYS follow you, no matter if they're aggressive or not.
If your minions are locked on a target through aggressive, but you run away so the boss is 100 yards away from you, then your minions will stop attacking and follow you instead because they're not within the required acquisition rnage to attack the target, despite being aggressive.

Minions don't switch between being aggressive and following.
In the case of Skeletons they will have two different setups:

1. Aggressive and not following you. Meaning they will seek out enemies in a 80 yard acquisition range around you. If you run away from the monsters(Further than 80 yards), then the skeletons won't follow you. They'll keep attacking until they despawn cause they're out of range from you.
2. Aggressive and following you. Meaning, they will attack anything within ~80 yards of you. If you run away from monsters so they're outside of your aggressive acquisition range(~80 yards) then the skeletons will stop attacking and follow you EXACTLY LIKE OTHER MINIONS.

Minions don't switch between aggressive or follow like you seem to believe. Whether a minion attacks something is purely based on if anything is within your acqusition range. If they're not, then they will follow you. Aggressive increases the radius of your acqusition range. That's how it works.

If you don't want your aggressive minions to stop attacking something, then don't run too far away from it. The only thing that can guarantee that you will have 100% uptime is predator cause the Mark for Death ability locks minions to a target and increases the acqusition range to 150 yards or something like that.

If you want max dps, you want predator support cause it gives you 100% uptime due to the increased acqusition range and lock on. Aggressive minions just increases the range for when your minions will start attacking something.

Will "follow" on minions be a dps decrease? Well, if you run AWAY from a boss so it's outside of your acqusition range, then yes, cause then the skeletons will follow you since nothing is in range of you any longer. I don't see why you would try to play in a sweetspot outside of the aggressive acqusition range and the radius where skeletons are despawned though. Just play with the new passive skeletons like you would with any other minion build.

In 99% of cases, having skeletons follow you won't be a dps decrease. Because, when aggressive, majority of people will see a boss on their screen which means they're in range of your acqusition range meaning minions will attack the target and not follow you.

Do you have any advice on how to salvage my skelemage necro? She's the strongest character I've had and I want to keep her playable in standard if I can.