GGGs reasoning on not making a SFL?

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Xavderion escreveu:

You're clearly not thinking ahead. I can again point you to the loot allocation incident. Or, since you're a RoS fan, I can point you to the Blizzard forums, where people still cry for drop buffs all the time and Blizzard is slowly caving in. I would only support a SFL if the game stays roughly the same (I'd be okay with easier/more deterministic crafting in such a league). If someone wants an SFL for competitive reasons, I support him 100% because, with his playstyle, he can't compete in the current leagues. But if someone demands of GGG to rebalance the whole game (pretty much the same what happened from D3 to RoS) because he's too lazy to trade, I'm against it.

That was an incident?

RoS fan? Why is that? Because I like the non-gated content and no FPS drops? You clearly need to put more thoughts when you call out someone by a certain name/term, you either don't know what the word "fan" (in this context) means, or you do, which I think you do, but you're being pathetic.

Now you're being silly or you're just playing stupid with your logic.
Pro-SFL guys don't want it to be easier, because there's nothing easier than trading, the sooner you realize that, the better.

People want to gear up by killing stuff, not by buying from a third party website or a forum.

In the end, what you're saying is pointless, because you've already witnessed before in SFL threads what kind of game do pro-SFL people want, and I really have no idea why are you inventing hot water.

That someone you're speaking of, is Worldbreaker.

People aren't too lazy to trade, at least not most of them, people want to loot their gear.


So, we've determined that you are indeed a pro-SFL player, so much time wasting on your hot water...

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Worldbreaker escreveu:

My suggestion would be to boost crafting orbs significantly in the normal leagues and implement a hybrid bind-on-account where items can only be traded one time. Prices would deflate due to only being able to sell it once (to someone who will use said item) but the increase from crafting drops would be enough to bring that price back up.

Then hopefully you can brute force the crafting slot machine and/or be able to use (not abuse) the trade mechanic via flipping.

It also creates another item sink if you find a better item. (aside from vaal orbs)

i think this is an effective way to deal with the supply and demand problem. maybe you could make a thread to discuss stuff about improving economy or item sink.

Long story short, I believe RNG is something that cannot be challenged/removed/weakened, you either live with RNG or quit. it's as simple as that. Item sink is one of the best, if not the best, solution to make the game more rewarding. i guess in most people's eyes, vaal orb is trash. But you can't deny it creates a decent amount of item sink, also, adds lots of interesting effect on current items. and there are people actually buying some vendor unique for 1-3chaos.

I want some fun in SFL too.

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tinko92 escreveu:

People aren't too lazy to trade, at least not most of them, people want to loot their gear.

Honestly what is the difference between looting pixel A or trading pixel B for pixel A? There is none. The end result is: you'll be using pixel A. Keep in mind that trading isnot the easy way out as you seem to claim. You don't get pixel A for free. You still needed pixel B.

The reason for not making a SFL:

It would take work/time/money. GGG didn't even have SotV ready at launch. They only managed to get it under hand after the shininess of new leagues had worn off and a good chunk of player base with it. Adding a SF sub-league within each 4month challenge league or running a separate/permanent SFL would further stretch the efforts of the dev team and hinder the production of their primary content.

The bottom line is potential revenue relative to development costs. Clearly GGG doesn't believe a SFL is worth dedicating dev/upkeep time to. Publicly, SF does not fit the design philosophy of the team. Privately, SF must not have the assumed potential to generate sufficient profit (while simultaneously introducing unknown variables with regard to player commitment/enjoyment) to warrant investment.

In my ideal gaming world (likely not being realistic):

As someone who plays PoE for ~4weeks at the start of every 4month, I would be interested to see a ~2week SF test league implemented at this stage of the 4month challenge leagues. The leagues have now been tweaked into balance and debugged. Give people a reason to come back to PoE while laying/testing the foundation of what could develop into an alternative way of playing the game for many that desire it. I know it certainly isn't the case for everyone, but fresh starts with no gear/currency banked add a shit load of enjoyment to the game for me. The one week races fill this role, but supplementing them with a SFL temp test league would be a boon to the health of the game from my point of view.

If nothing else, I'd like to see it done for science and my own curiosity. But that's just my own ideal. I don't imagine it will happen any time soon. Variety is the spice of life.. etc. We can all argue for or against SF, but we can't know how shit/great it is until we play it.

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Reinhart escreveu:

Honestly what is the difference between looting pixel A or trading pixel B for pixel A? There is none. The end result is: you'll be using pixel A. Keep in mind that trading isnot the easy way out as you seem to claim. You don't get pixel A for free. You still needed pixel B.

Really? What's the difference? None? Laugh...
How about in the way you're getting the item?
Spending 3 hours flipping items or spending 3 hours killing monsters, absolutely no difference!

Yes, trading is as easy as it gets. Couple of hours of studying builds on the forum and the prices of certain items, after that, you'll be earning 10+ times more by trading than killing monsters, unless you hit the jackpot with the loot. But that would be temporary, you'd need to hit another jackpot soon, to be ahead still.

All you need is a capital investment, around 2 ex is enough to produce 10+ ex in 2 days.

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Reinhart escreveu:

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tinko92 escreveu:

People aren't too lazy to trade, at least not most of them, people want to loot their gear.

Honestly what is the difference between looting pixel A or trading pixel B for pixel A? There is none. The end result is: you'll be using pixel A. Keep in mind that trading isnot the easy way out as you seem to claim. You don't get pixel A for free. You still needed pixel B.

Very bad comparison.

Looting pixel A is one thing. A hundred thousand other players also potentially looting pixel A creates abundance and is another thing. You are guaranteed to drop pixel B before pixel A. So if trading pixel B for pixel A is the same thing, it would be the same thing to give everyone 10000% increased drop rates.

Now you see why, too.

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VenatorPoE escreveu:

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Reinhart escreveu:

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tinko92 escreveu:

People aren't too lazy to trade, at least not most of them, people want to loot their gear.

Honestly what is the difference between looting pixel A or trading pixel B for pixel A? There is none. The end result is: you'll be using pixel A. Keep in mind that trading isnot the easy way out as you seem to claim. You don't get pixel A for free. You still needed pixel B.

Very bad comparison.

Looting pixel A is one thing. A hundred thousand other players also potentially looting pixel A creates abundance and is another thing. You are guaranteed to drop pixel B before pixel A. So if trading pixel B for pixel A is the same thing, it would be the same thing to give everyone 10000% increased drop rates.

Now you see why, too.

You only take into account your sources and not your sinks.

"I don't want you to have fun."


I would have so much more respect for these anti-SFL posts if at the very least they were open and honest about where they are coming from with their arguments.

There is literally not a single valid reason period for not having a permanent SFL. Not a single swaying post ever made on the subject.

So again... come clean and save yourself some face here: "I don't want you to have fun."

Man up.

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Reinhart escreveu:

You only take into account your sources and not your sinks.

You're just adding details to my elaboration. We could go at it all day long and end up with just another book on economy [There's a difference between real world economy and economy in online games, yes.].

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Reinhart escreveu:

Honestly what is the difference between looting pixel A or trading pixel B for pixel A? There is none.

This is your initial point, and it is wrong, partly because of the simplified example I wrote in the previous post, partly because of a million other reasons. If you want to make a new point, make one, but please don't drag it out for no reason. I generalized (not usually a good thing to do), you defined (absolutes are much worse).

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Isbox1 escreveu:

"I don't want you to have fun."


I would have so much more respect for these anti-SFL posts if at the very least they were open and honest about where they are coming from with their arguments.

There is literally not a single valid reason period for not having a permanent SFL. Not a single swaying post ever made on the subject.

So again... come clean and save yourself some face here: "I don't want you to have fun."

Man up.

nobody(maybe 1 or 2) is really anti_SFL, who really cares if there are 2 or 3 more leagues ?
GGG dont make the league(whatever its called) happen, and your trying to blame others for that?