[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

I rerolled my impale cyclone slayer into this build because I was too squishy. Right now I'm feeling tanky, but idk where the dmg comes from.

I know there is a lot to improve in my build, I got 1c amulet that I can't annoit and didnt buy Ryslatha Coil yet, but still, I need to keep on hitting over and over even T12-T13 bosses. Cyclone dmg ok packs is just ok too, but some rares even on T12-T13 need a bit of spinning to die.

Did I miss something very important about that build?

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Flying_Mage escreveu:

Am I right assuming that Feed the Fury will work with full health because of our Brutal Fervour passive?

I also wonder if Titanic Swings passive will work with Heavy Strike while it uses Melee Splash support?

Feed the Fury will work with Brutal Fervour.

Heavy Strike itself won't benefit from any area damage, the splash will.

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maciek2g escreveu:

I rerolled my impale cyclone slayer into this build because I was too squishy. Right now I'm feeling tanky, but idk where the dmg comes from.

I know there is a lot to improve in my build, I got 1c amulet that I can't annoit and didnt buy Ryslatha Coil yet, but still, I need to keep on hitting over and over even T12-T13 bosses. Cyclone dmg ok packs is just ok too, but some rares even on T12-T13 need a bit of spinning to die.

Did I miss something very important about that build?

It's hard to tell without being able to see all of the build, including passives, cluster jewels etc.

My suspicion is that you're doing most things right, but due to budget limitations missing out on some DPS from several places.

Also, Cyclone by itself is one of the lowest DPS skills. A 4-link Heavy Strike beats a 6-link Cyclone when it comes to single-target DPS. One way most Cyclone builds overcome this low DPS is to build around Impale, which is a very strong mechanics.

So, it's reasonable to expect lower Cyclone DPS from this build, compared to a good Impale based Cyclone build. But you shouldn't really spend a lot of time on rare mobs, that really shouldn't happen.

I do have a short video demo of me clearing a T16 with Cyclone posted on the guide. If I recall correctly the map had Hexproof mod, so my Vulnerability wasn't working. So you can definitely expect similar or better DPS as shown in that video.

1. Out of curiosity, are you able to permastun awakened 8 sirus with your delirium build now?

2. Should I get the voices large cluster jewel? Would it help with this build?

3. which is one perfect roll stat should I look in the ryslatha's coil belt?

4. Are you going to create a R.E.S.T chart for us so we can see how much DPS we must reach per level of R.E.S.T to stun against different bosses?

Thanks.

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MasterChief22530 escreveu:

1. Out of curiosity, are you able to permastun awakened 8 sirus with your delirium build now?

2. Should I get the voices large cluster jewel? Would it help with this build?

3. which is one perfect roll stat should I look in the ryslatha's coil belt?

4. Are you going to create a R.E.S.T chart for us so we can see how much DPS we must reach per level of R.E.S.T to stun against different bosses?

Thanks.

1. I never tried. I should be able to stun him, but some modifications in the passive tree are needed for some more consistent stun-locking. To be honest stunning doesn't really help this fight too much. In 3.10 this fight really comes down to can you dodge the beams correctly.

2. I think the Voices is only good if it's the perfect roll. It's really expensive and I wouldn't recommend going for it.

3. You should look for the highest possible maximum; other than that, the lowest possible minimum is also important. I have a detailed discussion on this in the guide, you should look for it.

4. There is no r.E.S.T. chart. We have such a high variance in our damage per hit, which means if we calculate what's the r.E.S.T. needed for us to possibly stun say Sirus with our highest possible hit (assume a quite optimized build), then the r.E.S.T. is going to be quite low, maybe 100% or even lower would be enough. But if we ask a slightly different question, what's the r.E.S.T. needed for us to guarantee stunning with all our hits, then maybe we need 300% r.E.S.T. or some other crazy numbers.

There are just so many factors going into "can I stun XXX boss?". A very important factor is also your stun duration and your chance to double your stun duration. For this build you will almost always end up in a spot where some of your hits can stun and some cannot. Having a long stun duration really helps overlapping your stuns and end up stun-locking a boss. So with so many factors coming into play I can only accurately represent the data maybe on a 6-dimensional hyper-cube or something, it's just not realistic.

So there are only 2 real answers to the "can I stun" question. 1. Do the boss yourself, better while recording, so you can play the recording frame to frame and see which hits stunned the boss under what conditions / buffs. 2. Use the stun simulator code I wrote and compare the numbers. If you need guidance in using the stun simulation code, let me know.

Thanks for the info.

1. But are you going to make any modifications in the passive tree that allow for more consistent stun locking of sirus? Because that would awesome, and I would like to implement it into my build.

2. And you'll also keep us up to date if you were to make any changes to your build to allow for more consistent stun locking of sirus?

Thanks.

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MasterChief22530 escreveu:

Thanks for the info.

1. But are you going to make any modifications in the passive tree that allow for more consistent stun locking of sirus? Because that would awesome, and I would like to implement it into my build.

2. And you'll also keep us up to date if you were to make any changes to your build to allow for more consistent stun locking of sirus?

Thanks.

If you look at my current passive tree I don't even have Stun Mastery. Kinematic Impacts and Spincruncher are also great clusters for stun-locking, and I don't have these as well. This is because for usual T16 mapping, these clusters are quite useless. Or even, for Sirus fight, Stun Mastery isn't too important either, since the fight is not really about stunning but about dodging the beams.

So no, you shouldn't really make those changes that I mentioned - unless your goal is specifically to stun-lock Sirus. So, if your goal is specifically to stun-lock Sirus, then go ahead and grab Stun Mastery and maybe Spincruncher; after you finished your Sirus fight, go back to your original passive tree.

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1. But are you going to make any modifications in the passive tree that allow for more consistent stun locking of sirus? Because that would awesome, and I would like to implement it into my build.

I could nearly perma stun A8 Sirus, he teleport like only 1 time in his last phase.
But if you look at my tree, it's quite different to brightwaha's, mainly because I have 30% fortify effect Lethal Pride and don't use Kaom's Heart and Damage On Full Life. You won't have exact same gear and play style as others. I think it is better to understand the reasoning behind the decisions. e.g. Should I sacrifice regeneration to spec in stun duration? What the chances I die to degen in Sirus fight? How much value would stun give against Sirus?

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brightwaha escreveu:

Flicker is very fast indeed, but is also sometimes annoying to play with due to awkward single-targeting and backtracing for loot. I have very mixed feelings about it. Good to hear that you're enjoying it, since it's probably the fastest skill by far.

Regarding Cry Wolf, it's a very interesting idea, but I actually don't think it's that strong. We can for sure see quite a lot of increased damage from this and Rallying Cry, but we shouldn't forget that it takes quite some passive points to get each cluster jewel notable, and now passive points are really valuable.

I think Cry Wolf would be strong if you're building specifically for map clearing, giving up some boss fight performance and use both Rallying Cry and Abyssal Cry for the best clear speed. However I have a hard time recommending this to everybody.

I already have explody chest, so that I don't need Abyssal Cry.

4 Cry wolf(with Rallying Cry and small node) give ~260% inc damage, ~330% w/ Rallying Cry enchant. I think this is really hard to beat for 8~12 point invested(depends on how you value another notable on the medium cluster jewel) It's even more damage than +1 Maximum Endurance charges passives pointwisely. Mana regen from Rallying Cry also helps against no leech map, small bonus though.

Also, I'm curious what's the number if using Berserk enchant. And Second Wind can support both Berserk and Warcry for 30% cool down recovery speed. Might be good enough to use Dash-Second Wind-Warcry-Berserk.

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daniel23915600 escreveu:

I already have explody chest, so that I don't need Abyssal Cry.

4 Cry wolf(with Rallying Cry and small node) give ~260% inc damage, ~330% w/ Rallying Cry enchant. I think this is really hard to beat for 8~12 point invested(depends on how you value another notable on the medium cluster jewel) It's even more damage than +1 Maximum Endurance charges passives pointwisely. Mana regen from Rallying Cry also helps against no leech map, small bonus though.

Also, I'm curious what's the number if using Berserk enchant. And Second Wind can support both Berserk and Warcry for 30% cool down recovery speed. Might be good enough to use Dash-Second Wind-Warcry-Berserk.

4 Cry Wolf is quite difficult to get, and it's not just an 8 point investment at the very least, it's also about needing 4 medium jewels, and with that many medium jewels and passive points invested it's hurting our core tree and we will have to sacrifice 2 or 3 other really juicy clusters.

Let's say the comprehensive cost is 10 passive points, and it gives 260% increased damage; to be very honest I wouldn't pick a cluster with every node being 26% increased damage.

So, I do see this as a way to play out this build, but I am not quite sold on it yet.

The story would be very different if in the medium jewel, we have a really high demand for Mob Mentality for Berserk as well. This would mean that we can get 4 medium jewels with both Cry Wolf and Mob Mentality and benefit from both.

Regarding the Second Wind, it's not going to affect warcry too much as we already have tons of recovery; and it's only going to affect Berserk if you do the Berserk-on-cooldown strategy.

Regarding the Berserk-on-cooldown strategy and Berserk enchants, I see some potential in them. I highly doubt if they can beat Heavy Strike enchant in single-target scenarios, but maybe if we use a Berserk-on-cooldown strategy it can help greatly while mapping.

I will be playing with my Berserk simulation code and get some insights from the numbers.

EDIT: my conclusions from playing with the Berserk simulation code:

1. There is a high incentive to get 2 Mob Mentality, very low incentive to get the 3rd, and close to 0 incentive for the 4th.

2. Berserk effect enchant is slightly better than Berserk rage loss enchant in terms of average DPS; however the Berserk rage loss enchant gives a higher coverage, which means we benefit more from the movement speed and damage mitigation. Winner should be the rage loss enchant.

3. Neither of the Berserk effect enchants beat Heavy Strike enchant in terms of single-target DPS, but they're good enough and offers great mapping benefits as well. I see them as good substitutes to the Heavy Strike enchant.

4. Second Wind gives 5%-ish Berserk coverage resulting in 2%-ish overall DPS; not bad.

5. With 2 Mob Mentality, Second Wind on both Warcry and Berserk, 40% rage loss Berserk enchant, and spamming of Berserk as long as it's off-cooldown, we achieve around 23-28% more average DPS and 84-86% Berserk coverage (fluctuations come from if we gain rage from Crave the Slaughter or not).

EDIT EDIT:

I just did a calculation on the effect of 4 Cry Wolf and 4 small nodes, and I got 250% damage and 377% damage without and with Rallying Cry enchant. This is quite different from your conclusion. And then I see it being much more appealing, especially with the enchant.

EDIT EDIT EDIT:

Made a section in the guide specifically for this.