[3.25] 41+ million DPS perma-flask Poisonous Concoction | Pathfinder

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DrFaustin escreveu:

You seem to be zooming through nicely!
I've started dying relatively frequently now that I've hit early red maps and 100+ delve. A few times were definitely my own fault but others I was wiped out in an instant. Any tips for making my character more durable?

https://pobb.in/5dPuBhmQlGZX

The damage isn't nowhere near yours yet, but still sufficient for the content I'm running

cheers!

WarPig has given pretty good advice already. Your passive skill tree looks really solid (grats on the correct Brutal Restraint BTW, it's not easy to find).

Bear in mind the build is structured to stack Frenzy Charges. That's not the only way to go (and the pre-Frenzy version is still pretty good), but the entire layout is to facilitate and take advantage of Frenzy Charges. The endgame version which (I hope still) caps poison DoT damage requires them, as does the snappy playstyle.

So, with that in mind, the next best upgrades all involve generating and benefiting from Frenzy charges i.e. a Farrul's Fur, Snakebite gloves, Devouring Diadem, Darkray Vectors etc. You can see my progression this league so far via the PoB list in the 3.22 Update section.

A word of caution though, the Frenzy version is a bit like an engine that requires all the pieces in the place before it will start, or be effective. You can work piece by piece (My suggestion is Cluster jewels, Farrul's Fur + Snakebite gloves + Darkray Vectors + our Rare Jewel with the right mods, the Diadem, Watcher's Eye, Forbidden Flesh/Flame jewels, and finally the Replica version of Farrul's Fur). Then you will have to struggle to balance resists - which is why each piece in the build is quite specific at endgame. That's an expensive trip, and will take time.

I think I will eventually make a proper guide with tree progression as well as the most optimized path for gear upgrades, though that will need to change every league and may not be as useful as it sounds.

Good luck though! The build is a slow burn, but is still fun this league so far. I can't speak to the league mechanic yet... it seems more suited to ranged CC builds though. Will report on that soon.

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WarPig17 escreveu:

Hello & thanks for the effort that has gone into the guide. They are often thankless passion projects so kudos

P.S. You're welcome bud, thank you, and welcome back!

So, it seems GGG have quietly nerfed the drop rate/mods on our rings which affects our ability to get the maximum number of Frenzy charges. Insert a futile but absolutely appropriate complaint here about GGG's way of always doing this. There aren't many things I don't like about PoE. Their constant, unwarranted nerfs is the biggest one.

However, I may have found a kind of way around it, but it means a reshuffling of gear, and a loss of some defense. I'll post here (and in the 3.22 section of the guide) once I've determined if it works or not.

Managed to get to 100, here is my current setup. Very similar skill tree & gear to the POB's you've provided but I'm using some different jewels, Determination instead of Purity of Elements, using Flame Dash and/or Shield Charge over Dash, and have some extra mana reservation in my tree to fit in an extra damage support gem for HoA:



This setup is at 3.3k HP but low chaos res, so beyond susceptibility to DoTs we're pretty hard to kill with grace/determination rolling, and I just zoom around pretty effortlessly doing whatever content and its still fun. The total cost has probably been around 25d so far, which is totally reasonable and not terribly hard to achieve doing whatever content is your favorite (outside the really tough stuff). Played Venom Gyre and Poison BV quite a bit in the past and this mid range poison build has been my favorite so far. Strongly recommended for league starts and anyone looking for a mid-investment Pathfinder that can do everything outside the very hardest content.

Edit: Also it's surprisingly effective at ToTA because our mobility is just insane. I'm at 1.2k ranking atm, and yes while one shots are a thing like it is for any build, you have alot of tools to stay alive and either focus on offense or defense depending on the situation.

(Unfortunately pessimistic) Mid-League Impressions:

GGG have nerfed us so hard and in such a variety of ways, I'm not sure I can unreservedly recommend the build this league. It still works, and still feels great to play if you like the playstyle. However, everything is tougher. For whatever reason itemization is very difficult and expensive, while currency seems harder to generate. Our Chest, for example, is 2-3x the cost of previous leagues, and rings with both +1 Frenzy Charges and Increased Duration just don't exist (I have the only one I've seen all league). Neither are there any double corrupted gloves available.

The logical and inevitable result is that we die a lot now. Maybe everyone is dying more this league due to what I suspect are under the hood changes to damage and defense across the board, but for a build that is traditionally tanky, it can be an uncharacteristically miserable experience at times.

Tattoos make up for some of the nerfs to us, but not enough to justify the effort and cost required to get the build to a reasonable level of power IMO. There are significant issues with the way GGG are handling poison right now, and I'd recommend people stay away from it until something changes.

We have lost at least 30% damage at mid level, 25% life, almost half our overall defense, and have nothing to show for it in return. On top of that, either most people are playing the league mechanic and farming other areas or are abandoning the league in droves, because itemization is easily twice as difficult. I suspect GGG have been adjusting mod appearance rates on the quiet, which has resulted in a direct (and devastating) reduction of the availability of key items - our rings, gloves, and endgame Watcher's Eye specifically.

The realistically best case I can see currently is around 39 million DPS (probably 41+ million and over poison cap still with Plague Bearer, as PoB doesn't show it) and ~100k eHP (3400 HP), which is 80k eHP and 1000 HP less than last league. There are variations that drop permanent flasks for a bit more damage and eHP, but I don't think the tradeoff is worth it. It's also very expensive to get to that version (150-200 divs), and that's only if required items become available.

So in summation, only play the build if you have a fair amount of currency already (it will take up to 100 divs minimum to get to endgame levels), and are prepared to spend hours on trade waiting and hoping for items to appear. Or, of course, play it if you particularly like the build. I do, and it's worth it for me. I am, however, eyeing other builds for the future as I've lost faith in GGG's current direction with poison.

I reserve the right to adjust this opinion if I find something to improve the build, but I'm not hopeful. Everything we do further reduces eHP and survivability. If you're going to play a glass cannon build, it's not going to one operating under the hard-capped damage ceiling of poison.

Sorry for the bad news, but it is what it is.

Updated PoB's available in the "3.22 Update" section on the main post.

Are you considered using progenesis amethyst flask and temporal rift for more survivability?.

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bammalaw escreveu:

Are you considered using progenesis amethyst flask and temporal rift for more survivability?.

I haven't looked at Progenesis specifically, but I think to use it effectively we'd have to take Master Surgeon in our ascendency + drop one of our other flasks (probably Quicksilver - though there may be a version this league where we can replace Overflowing Chalice and keep flasks up). The real issue though is that Poisonous Concoction takes from our life flask, often leaving it empty. The build is uniquely vulnerable to DoTs, so adding another one might actually be counter-effective when we try to use our health flask as little as possible. I'd have to try it to see how it feels, and its 31+ div right now. I'm not sure it's a realistic proposition.

Temporal Rift doesn't really fit into the build as far as I can see. Interesting thoughts though.

Uploaded latest 32 million DPS, 108k eHP version in the 3.22 Update section. Still more we can do, but without gimping our defense I don't think there's a way to get to poison cap this league.

Realistically, I think the best we can do is 35 million DPS + 121 eHP (closer to 38 million due to Plague Bearer which PoB doesn't calculate).

Still great to play if you like the snappy playstyle, though expensive this league. Lower HP means more one-shots, but it's not terrible.

For those who still want to play the non-frenzy version.

I am currently 92 doing top end red maps. Through extensive testing it seems our max poison stacks is set to 33. All of the calculations based on the current 3.22 Endgame that the OP posted. Since we are not able to go beyond that the cost is really not worth it to go frenzy. I am sitting at 9.9M with 16 stacks so there is plenty of room to grow. I have a 15M PoB that I am attempting to finalize.

Two key changes I made is using a replica dragonflame fang with +3 to poison conc and a 6-link B-5G Dendrobate. The lesser changes I added an Enduring composure + spiked concoction Meglomaniac that I found in legion. The boost with the endurance charges when hit is a good cheap defensive boost.

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jehzir escreveu:

Through extensive testing it seems our max poison stacks is set to 33.

According to devs, this is not true. You can read about that here.

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Is there a limit to number of stacks of poison?

There is no stack limit.

If your own testing only got to 33, it's almost certainly because your attack speed/poison duration etc. topped out at that figure i.e. stacks were dropping off as fast as you could apply them.

Not that there's anything wrong with the non-Frenzy version! It's actually almost as fast as the Frenzy version I think, and a whole lot cheaper. It's doesn't do nearly as much damage, but if you're just farming maps its completely adequate (and fun).