Why Poe is becoming PAY TO WIN GAME - free discusion

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Pyrokar escreveu:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1675076

This thread might open some people's eyes, or it might not. It's like a Zubat cave in here.

He reached level 100 with no additional stash tabs, only to say that stash tabs are pay to win. k, well, thanks for proving our point I suppose?

Also, as always coming from position of I'm right, come here and listen to words of truth, plebs.

Ah, how I love my new signature. <3

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Perq escreveu:

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Pyrokar escreveu:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1675076

This thread might open some people's eyes, or it might not. It's like a Zubat cave in here.

He reached level 100 with no additional stash tabs, only to say that stash tabs are pay to win. k, well, thanks for proving our point I suppose?

Also, as always coming from position of I'm right, come here and listen to words of truth, plebs.

Ah, how I love my new signature. <3

Its almost as if you have no reading comprehention.

People without tabs have absolutely no chance of competing with people who have them in leagues.

You can also complete everything in the mobile dungeon keeper but it does not make it any less p2w.

Yup, you can reach max lvl/end game without xp pots/ buying items in the p2w games.

Stash tabs make you rich and allow you to dedicate way more time to maping, therefore getting you more xp and items.
It's not much different from buying xp pots and currency from a p2w store.

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deathspenalty escreveu:

Its almost as if you have no reading comprehentsion.

People without tabs have absolutely no chance of competing with people who have them in leagues.

You can also complete everything in the mobile dungeon keeper but it does not make it any less p2w.

I do, thank you.

Well, that is correct - people without stash tabs are unlikely to be competitive. But who said you'd be able to be competitive without any investment at all? (Lets ignore races now, in which you can compete as everyone else). Lets be real here. GGG is a company and they are doing it for money.

So now, can you please, point me to any other game, or even hobby/sport that you can enjoy your time, without spending any money? Well, you can say any sport that only needs you to buy equipment to start (same with PoE - you need a PC)... great. How about being competitive?
Look - you're given full game, which is updated regularly. You can play ssf. You can gain MTX rewards for playing. And degree of advantage stash tabs are giving you is not even comparable to ones commonly found in other games. I made a list, which is what would happen if PoE was made in typical MMO p2w style. Would you prefer that?

So now lets say we consider PoE buy-to-play game, since you need stash tabs to compete. How much money do you need to spend? Few dollars? And for that, you're given all the future updates, without any additional cost, maintaining your stash tabs. Who else is offering something like that?

At this point I will admit that GGG is doing some weird acrobatics with new stuff they are adding, namely cards and Essences - it seems like stash tabs are selling quite well, and they are trying to shove more and more shit into our stash tabs, making inventory management even more of a pain in the ass. This is even more obvious given how useless most cards are.
I'd really prefer them to stop that trend, and if they want to implement something that requires so much items to handle, they should provide FREE additional stash tabs to handle that shit. If this trend continues, I will admit that GGG is doing terrible job in being free-to-play.

I too would love a fairy-land in which everyone is in 1:1, exactly the same spot when it comes to being competitive. I think GGG's business model is fair, but if you really want to chose and call PoE p2w, go on. Maybe they will change something.

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Perq escreveu:

At this point I will admit that GGG is doing some weird acrobatics with new stuff they are adding, namely cards and Essences - it seems like stash tabs are selling quite well, and they are trying to shove more and more shit into our stash tabs, making inventory management even more of a pain in the ass. This is even more obvious given how useless most cards are.
I'd really prefer them to stop that trend, and if they want to implement something that requires so much items to handle, they should provide FREE additional stash tabs to handle that shit. If this trend continues, I will admit that GGG is doing terrible job in being free-to-play.

I too would love a fairy-land in which everyone is in 1:1, exactly the same spot when it comes to being competitive. I think GGG's business model is fair, but if you really want to chose and call PoE p2w, go on. Maybe they will change something.

Exactly this. The cosmetic stuff only policy was the reason I was so happy with this company and I can understand that they need to sell things. But creating more and more shit that takes lots of space feels like they force us to buy tabs and I didnt sign up for that shit. It should be a good option and something to consider if you plan on playing a lot. Nothing more and nothing less.

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Pyrokar escreveu:

Yup, you can reach max lvl/end game without xp pots/ buying items in the p2w games.

Stash tabs make you rich and allow you to dedicate way more time to maping, therefore getting you more xp and items.
It's not much different from buying xp pots and currency from a p2w store.

It's entirely different. In a classic f2p p2w game, your progress scales with the amount of money you spend. In PoE, once you have say 10 stash tabs, there is no way another 10 or 20 or 100 stash tabs will make you measurably more competitive. So spend 20-30 bucks on stash tabs and you're 100% competitive. Yuge difference to actual p2w games.

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Perq escreveu:

Imagine being able to buy god-tier Uniques like Skyforth's, Shavs or kaoms

Imagine buying them in their legacy form.

Currency stash tabs and premium stash tabs are pay to win.

Less stash wasted on currency means more tabs to sell items. More premium stash tabs means more public stash tabs to list items and sell items quickly. Less time wasted listing items means more time for farming more gear. More currency means stronger items are more easily obtainable speeding up your characters progression and snowballing previous statements.

Pay to win means buying power. Premium stash tabs and the currency stash tabs directly equate to power via increased efficiency.

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Xavderion escreveu:

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Pyrokar escreveu:

Yup, you can reach max lvl/end game without xp pots/ buying items in the p2w games.

Stash tabs make you rich and allow you to dedicate way more time to maping, therefore getting you more xp and items.
It's not much different from buying xp pots and currency from a p2w store.

It's entirely different. In a classic f2p p2w game, your progress scales with the amount of money you spend. In PoE, once you have say 10 stash tabs, there is no way another 10 or 20 or 100 stash tabs will make you measurably more competitive. So spend 20-30 bucks on stash tabs and you're 100% competitive. Yuge difference to actual p2w games.

You are right. Stash tabs are like permanent xp pots and currency gains. Buy once, use forever. It's completely different than buying the boosts all the time.

ok, i'm convinced, its pay-to-win. just a word of caution though...

if your definition of winning is having lots of currency, by all means buy pay-to-win stash tabs so you may win,

but

pay-to-win stash tabs doesn't manufacture currency, so you still have to play, grind and farm uber atziri, grind and farm uber lab, grind and farm shaper or to where you might love to grind and farm to pickup currency drops or items you can sell and store in the pay-to-win stash tabs,

but

pay-to-win stash tabs doesn't automatically price your items and sell it for you, so you have to study item pricing to be competitive and sell it to other players, haggle and deal with their shit which this pay-to-win stash tabs won't do for you, and to accumulate huge amount of currency you have to sell sellable items, or items of high currency value,

but

pay-to-win stash tabs will not increase your RNG chances for high valued sought after items, you can offer some to RNG gods and hope that they smile upon your offerings or you might still need to flip items or control the market to some level,

but

pay-to-win stash tabs will not flip items for you, so you may still need to keep constant track of items in the market like poe.trade so you can grab juicy offers and low selling high value items for huge profits.


so yeah, with a little real money investment, or maybe more, you can maybe might win.

edit:
so on hindsight its not pay-to-win, it's pay-to-maybe-might-win or pay-and-work-hard-to-win.
we should be complaining that it's not pay-to-win, cause why pay if you ain't directly winning.