Why Poe is becoming PAY TO WIN GAME - free discusion

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Miská escreveu:

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AncientRedDragon escreveu:

This game is certainly pay to win. There is no need for the word "becoming" in the thread title. The thread title should read "POE is a Pay to Win Game."

People who buy additional stash tabs, premium stash tabs, currency stash tabs, map stash tabs, divination stash tabs, essence stash tabs, fragment stash tabs, etc. definitely have a massive advantage over others who do not buy anything. That point is so obvious that it cannot be reasonably debated.

Except for the part there is no actual 'winning' in this game. Because let's be honest, except for the handful of streamers that compete for level 100 everyone else can just play the game the way they feel like it. And last time I checked, you can still easily do that with the free starting tabs.

That's why PoE has always been, and still is, pay for convenience. Nothing more.

True.

I probably already posted in this thread when it was opened but i will ask again.

Can some of this poe is p2w people point me in how exactly am I winning?

I got those tabs few years ago and for example, this league I didn't sell a single item, didn't have a need to. So, if I didn't sell anything, how exactly am I winning over someone who bought no tabs and plays 18 hours a day? What am I winning? What advantage that isn't time investment, do I win over people who never bought a single tab?

Because at the end of the day I don't feel like a winner. I feel like everyone else and don't have the feeling that a person with 150 tabs is "winning" more than I do.

Having played near 100 games with cash shop over 11 years both on android and pc I can seriously say PoE is very very far away from monetization models I had the chance to be part of.

I could go on, but why bother, there is a limit to reason, but not to stupidity.

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Miská escreveu:

Except for the part there is no actual 'winning' in this game.

Sure there is. I've even seen an interview with a dev (probably Chris?) where he said something like: most players consider the ability to acquire wealth in this game to be the measure of winning or losing. I'm paraphrasing and that is based on memory, so even though he didn't use those exact words (he may not have even said "winning" at all), that's the gist of the meaning.

And even if no dev ever said anything like that, then regardless, the principle that wealth accumulation is how one wins in games like POE would still be true. Players who have never paid RMT for Stash upgrades are extremely handicapped (i.e they are losing) vs. those who did (i.e. they are winning). This thread is full of posts that try to deny and/or downplay those facts, but that doesn't make them stop being reality.

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AncientRedDragon escreveu:

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Miská escreveu:

Except for the part there is no actual 'winning' in this game.

Sure there is. I've even seen an interview with a dev (probably Chris?) where he said something like: most players consider the ability to acquire wealth in this game to be the measure of winning or losing. I'm paraphrasing and that is based on memory, so even though he didn't use those exact words (he may not have even said "winning" at all), that's the gist of the meaning.

And even if no dev ever said anything like that, then regardless, the principle that wealth accumulation is how one wins in games like POE would still be true. Players who have never paid RMT for Stash upgrades are extremely handicapped (i.e they are losing) vs. those who did (i.e. they are winning). This thread is full of posts that try to deny and/or downplay those facts, but that doesn't make them stop being reality.

Then buy a measly support pack and get a couple of premium tabs and support the game. Stop whining, it isn't P2W, it just means you have to spend a bit more time. I came back to this game after a very long break, saw it had improved a lot and bought a basic supporter pack. $30 is all you need, anything else is just a bonus or looking more fashionable.

If you've played this game for YEARS without any financial support then you have nothing to whinge about and if you're brand new to the game then you also have nothing to whine about since you can still become wealthy and competitive.

You pay for luxury, not directing winning, stop trying to split hairs. If you play the game a lot and haven't supported even @ the most basic level it then you have no grounds. That's on you, not anyone else.

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AncientRedDragon escreveu:

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Miská escreveu:

Except for the part there is no actual 'winning' in this game.

Sure there is. I've even seen an interview with a dev (probably Chris?) where he said something like: most players consider the ability to acquire wealth in this game to be the measure of winning or losing. I'm paraphrasing and that is based on memory, so even though he didn't use those exact words (he may not have even said "winning" at all), that's the gist of the meaning.

And even if no dev ever said anything like that, then regardless, the principle that wealth accumulation is how one wins in games like POE would still be true. Players who have never paid RMT for Stash upgrades are extremely handicapped (i.e they are losing) vs. those who did (i.e. they are winning). This thread is full of posts that try to deny and/or downplay those facts, but that doesn't make them stop being reality.

This thread is full of people using non existing quotes and made up 'winning' goals. If you are so concerned about wealth aquisition you should buy some tabs. I'm not denying for that purpose they are definitely a benefit over someone who doesn't have them. I don't think it's to much of a stretch to be expected to invest something into a game, if you want to be the best at something in it. Cause afterall this game doesn't run on thin air.

If this game is P2W, I demand my money back immediately!

I've spent a couple hundred bucks, have a bunch of cool MTX and all imaginable stash tabs, yet I have only finished 9 challenges and progressed to T8 maps this league.

WHERE THE F ARE ALL MY WINS?

(I guess I am not paying enough, huh?)

So, all 35 pages of this thread are people arguing that a QoL mtx is paying to win and the other hand are saying that it isn't?

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mustash escreveu:

So, all 35 pages of this thread are people arguing that a QoL mtx is paying to win and the other hand are saying that it isn't?

Pretty much.

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rhah escreveu:

"Winning" in this game is: leveling, acquiring wealth, gearing, overcoming challenges.

Purchasable stash tabs can help you will that. They will give you an advantage if you make full use of them. That meets the definition of pay to win.

you can have this for free(Acquisition) , ya know ?

So, this thread still keeps going, huh?!?!

To summarize this whole debate in one image...



There will be no end in this debate in proving which side is true, because both sides might be true, it's just a matter of perspective. Because each side have their own definition of "winning" & "pay to win".