GGGs reasoning on not making a SFL?

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VenatorPoE escreveu:

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iamstryker escreveu:

I'm not sure how making Path of Exile so heavily focused on trading ISN'T catering to the lowest common denominator. Is trading supposed to be hardcore or something?

Let's just expand on this a little though.

The intended design of PoE was not to have XYZ. It wasn't meant to give easy access to trading. Trading was supposed to be a little addition - here and there you would find an item to buy, either on the forum or the trade chat, and get an upgrade that way, by BARTERING. This is what would give PoE its intended "hardcore gameplay".

This is 100% wrong. GGG always wanted to improve trading possibilities, their vision for that is somewhat close to what xyz is doing. They just failed to implement their platform in time. The xyz guy basically beat them to it. Trading isn't a little addition, the whole game is balanced around it. It's a core feature.

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iamstryker escreveu:

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Xavderion escreveu:

Trading is a core part of the game, that's how GGG designed PoE from the beginning, for various reasons like PoE being an online game, trading giving dropped items more value and so on. Has nothing to do with hardcore?

I think trading is just as hardcore in PoE as it was in D3 with the AH. As in not at all.

Just to clarify I don't have any general problem with trading. Just that its so much more beneficial to a player than his time spent actually playing the game. I think finding and crafting your gear should be above trading.

Trading gives finding and crafting gear more value. Trading also is 'actually playing the game', it's a big part of the play experience.

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Xavderion escreveu:

Trading gives finding and crafting gear more value. Trading also is 'actually playing the game', it's a big part of the play experience.

Trading being part of the experience, sure.

I don't consider bumping forum threads, spamming trade chat, and cruising through xyz to be actually playing the game though. But thats just me.

Trading isn't a well crafted ARPG, its just a small part of the experience which some players don't even partake of. Without trading your still playing Path of Exile.

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Xavderion escreveu:

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VenatorPoE escreveu:

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iamstryker escreveu:

I'm not sure how making Path of Exile so heavily focused on trading ISN'T catering to the lowest common denominator. Is trading supposed to be hardcore or something?

Let's just expand on this a little though.

The intended design of PoE was not to have XYZ. It wasn't meant to give easy access to trading. Trading was supposed to be a little addition - here and there you would find an item to buy, either on the forum or the trade chat, and get an upgrade that way, by BARTERING. This is what would give PoE its intended "hardcore gameplay".

This is 100% wrong. GGG always wanted to improve trading possibilities, their vision for that is somewhat close to what xyz is doing. They just failed to implement their platform in time. The xyz guy basically beat them to it. Trading isn't a little addition, the whole game is balanced around it. It's a core feature.

Did you read the rest of my post? It's quite annoying when people quote a select part of a larger post, effectively pulling things out of context. Just use the spoiler tags for organization purposes.

Balancing the game around trading, but advertising "barter based gameplay" and saying the gold mechanic of every other online game is removed (both statements being completely false), doesn't really make their game a hardcore experience. If their intentions are to make another typical MMOish trading environment, they should rephrase their website, for a start.

I love forum people!

The very same crowd that dissed D3 as AH3 with great distate, now turned 180 degrees defending AH style trade and opposing SFL just because D3 now has it.

I guess their stance has nothing to do with PoE, it is simply opposing anything related to D3.

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iamstryker escreveu:

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Xavderion escreveu:

Trading gives finding and crafting gear more value. Trading also is 'actually playing the game', it's a big part of the play experience.

Trading being part of the experience, sure.

I don't consider bumping forum threads, spamming trade chat, and cruising through xyz to be actually playing the game though. But thats just me.

Trading isn't a well crafted ARPG, its just a small part of the experience which some players don't even partake of. Without trading your still playing Path of Exile.

Stryker you can't say that Xav is going to the extreme with his scenario then point trade out to an extreme scenario.

You don't have to spam trade chat, or bump forum threads (seriously how long does this take anyways?) or flipping from xyz or whatever.

The only reason I am for this SFL is to make "crafting" viable to people that play the game "enough", not casually 5 hours a week, but maybe 18+ hours a week. Right now as it stands, using trade the way I believe it was meant (very modestly to sell items or buy build enabling uniques like Alphas Howl, occasionally mid tier gear as well) combined with actually farming maps I get maybe 1-2 exalts per day. Perfect items have been crafted now, SINGLE perfect items have been crafted and have cost on average 700 exalted. How in the flying fuck is anyone that doesn't flip or spam get that amount of currency? Based on my average it would take me 1 full year to craft 1 perfect item assuming I spend 0 currency on maps or other items, just banking all of it for one craft. For a 10 year game, towards the end of the life of the game I might have just enough perfect gear for a single character.


The reason I am against a SFL is for the same reason I am for it, it doesn't fix the main problem and removes something I enjoy to add something I like. The main/only reason I like trade is because when I find gear that isn't for my character or not for a character I plan on rolling I still get excited if it is a good piece for another build. Selling that item helps progress the one I am working on, or one I plan on working on. Removing this feature, the only loot you will be looking for or rolling will be gear to benefit you. This also removes part of the "hardcore" grind for myself as now instead of grinding with a bag over my head, I am grinding with a mile marker telling me when I have grinded enough. Or picture this scenario, RNG blesses me with the OMFG drop, Kaoms Heart!, a week goes by RNG blesses me with another OMFG drop, Kaoms Heart! another week goes by OMG! Kaoms Heart! week wow Kaoms Heart... another week another shitty Kaoms Heart where IS MY FUCKING SHAVS! WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL DIS KAOM?!

Of course that last example is a bit extreme, but getting multiples of drops WILL be problematic in a SFL. You can't do anything with them but store them in your stash or vendor them. You 6L a Voltaxic, another drops.

Either way I don't care, if I pick one I lose something. I am just unbiased with my opinion on it. Most complaints for SFL are valid, as are the complaints against it. Everyone is just bitching at each other in a circle.

While I would definitely roll some characters in a SFL, I would rather GGG spend their time on getting Custom Leagues in place, rather than a SFL. Players could tailor the game to them (and their friends), not infect the other league economies, and generate steady income for GGG.

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symban escreveu:

I love forum people!

The very same crowd that dissed D3 as AH3 with great distate, now turned 180 degrees defending AH style trade and opposing SFL just because D3 now has it.

I guess their stance has nothing to do with PoE, it is simply opposing anything related to D3.

This trade system is still far off from an auction house. Nothing here has a set price and an auction house does exactly that. Even with a buyout listed, people still barter. Good example happened a little while ago. I 6L'd my main armor and was selling a Tabula, people had some listed for 1.5 ex buyout, me not caring put mine for 2 ex, those guys weren't online and I was and someone bought mine. In an AH environment everyone just undercuts the next guy tanking item values, far worse off seeing as people don't even have to be online to sell anything.

Also flippers are a lot worse off here and have to put in some amount of effort to flip items, in Diablo 3 I just ran AHK and auto-bought rings with 15% IAS (before nerf) that was under 20k gold since the lowest any 15% sold for was 200k at the time. I would come home from work and have a stash/queue FILLED with items that people just tossed up there. Lookup comparable items and sell mine for 75% of the lowest. Then I banked all the gold into Radiant Gems and sold them all off when the RMAH hit (along with god tier rings people listed under 20k) and made over $12,000 in 2 months.

Yes, I would say this system is a fuck ton different.

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Xavderion escreveu:

Well, usually when you make a game, you have a vision of how the game should turn out to be. You base the core design around that vision and stick to it. If you want to be a jack of all trades, you become EA, AB or Ubisoft and produce watered down games that try to meet the lowest common denominator. Sorry that I don't want PoE to become such a game. If that makes me selfish, so be it.

You do realize that the existence of the SFL would not change other leagues, everything stays the same there, for you and your buddies.

Please do explain, how is having a choice a bad thing?
How would the existence of SFL influence those who play in other leagues? Would they not be able to trade and enjoy the game as they are now?
What would PoE become with a SFL?

Yes, it makes you selfish, so far.

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tinko92 escreveu:

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Xavderion escreveu:

Well, usually when you make a game, you have a vision of how the game should turn out to be. You base the core design around that vision and stick to it. If you want to be a jack of all trades, you become EA, AB or Ubisoft and produce watered down games that try to meet the lowest common denominator. Sorry that I don't want PoE to become such a game. If that makes me selfish, so be it.

You do realize that the existence of the SFL would not change other leagues, everything stays the same there, for you and your buddies.

Please do explain, how is having a choice a bad thing?
How would the existence of SFL influence those who play in other leagues? Would they not be able to trade and enjoy the game as they are now?
What would PoE become with a SFL?

Yes, it makes you selfish, so far.

They don't get it. It's that simple. Don't waste too much energy on it.

Yes: it is completely selfish of them since it would literally have zero impact on their lives.