[feedback] bored to death

@Wittgenstein

1. No need for the same thing in two different gameplay mechanics. It's just a very bad design. Late D3 changes' focal point was this.

2. I've meant item mods. I sense you're trying to do demagogy.

3. That wasn't the point. If this is an online-only game. You have to design it with that in mind.

4. Get the best gear possible in PoE and just kill things mindlessly. You seem to have fun with that kind of thing. Stay away from PVP.

5. People can think. There isn't even a small possiblity for that unless GGG hires 5 more animators.

Edit: I just read your following post. Just improvements to animations would nowhere be near enough. But I see now why you think it's possible. However it was clear as daylight that I wrote animation overhaul.

6. The perspective you were commented about in your pre-previous post.

Your attachment to defending the game's current stage is admirable but I know the times you weren't an alpha member and what kind of threads you posted. If I wasn't an alpha member I would discuss this topic differently with you especially after your last post.

Permaximum,

When you became an alpha member.. when I did.. when anyone became anything.. is completely irrelevant.

" but I know the times you weren't an alpha member and what kind of threads you posted. If I wasn't an alpha member I would discuss this topic differently with you especially after your last post."

No idea what that even means. Although I am flattered that you have all of my posts committed to memory (apparently).

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I am only "defending" the game in so much as I feel that your criticisms are entirely misplaced, or invalid, or based purely on your personal opinion. Which would be fine, if you would just admit that they are opinions, but you won't.. you state them as facts, like when you said "pvp has larger server populations then pve servers." to which I showed evidence of 2 top MMO's that show otherwise. Or when you said PvP is so important (without providing one ARPG as an example) Or when you said that animations can't/won't be added... I have no issues with you disagreeing with my opinions, I will defend my opinions, but I never treat them as fact.

You seem completley bent on saying "this game isn't good, and it isn't going to get better, and anyone who disagrees is fooling themselves." That's great, but if that's your stance.. go play something else. Not saying that in a snarky or disparaging way, I just don't see the point of consistently saying the game isn't any good.. which is honestly the majority of the posts you have made since I have been a member of this community.

If you meant "animation overhaul" to mean completely original animations for every possible move or combination of moves.. then yes, that is completely impossible, but is absurd to think that was GGG's plan. Especially when the example they gave was changing what the fireball looks like when you shoot it. You may think that isn't enough to get people to open their pocket books.. but that's not necessarily the case.. creators of Farmville have made a boat load off of "pay to own" tractors or fencing..

Also.. Demagogy means.. Demagogy (/ˈdɛməɡɒdʒi/[1]) or demagoguery (/ˈdɛməɡɒɡəri/[2]) (Ancient Greek: δημαγωγία, from δῆμος dēmos "people" and ἄγειν agein "to lead") is a strategy for gaining political power by appealing to the prejudices, emotions, fears, vanities and expectations of the public—typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda, and often using nationalist, populist or religious themes. in reference to the Athenian statesman, Cleon.

No idea what you meant when using that term.

My last post on this.

"

wittgenstein escreveu:

Which boss battles in D2 were really that difficult? Most of the time the only "strategy" you needed was chugging health pots or running away. What skills did the bosses have that actually made them a challenge? a nova? some kind of DoT? That's really all there was.

How many skills did you use on a normal basis in D2? Seems like people hate that you only use 3 or so skills in this game (I use more) but people are constantly implying that other ARPG's have this plethora of options.. that, frankly, I do not recall.

The comments about "all we do is kill things" that I hear make 0 sense to me, because that's all you ever do in a game like this.

I understand the game has flaws, and there is nothing wrong with pointing them out.. or moving on to another game if this isn't your thing.. but I feel like a lot of people have rose colored glasses on when they look at other games, and they are also expecting way to much from an indie team working on a free to play game.

This is exactly how I feel when I read threads like this. The comparisons to other games are usually incredibly flawed. People are comparing PoE to other games that play in almost the exact same ways, but for some reason they remember those other games being different when they actually weren't. Not enough variance in the number of skills you have to use? I use far more skills in PoE than I ever did for comparable characters/classes in D2 and TQ. Bosses aren't interesting compared to other games'? Again, D2 and TQ: there were just a few attack skills per boss, just like in PoE (and the devs have even said they're working on more, so this is another instance of impatience on the testers' part). I just don't see what made D2, TQ, TL, etc. grander or in any way better than PoE other than them being finalized, released games that are out of the development phase.

I think some people's strongly negative comments are due to their skewed expectations of PoE. We all want a great game; there's no doubt about that. The problem is that some people want PoE to be something that it was never intended to be. It's not going to be a perfect game. It's not going to solve every perceived issue that people have with other games in the ARPG genre. Many of these "issues" (which are really features) are intentionally included because some players enjoy them, if even just for nostalgia. There's a reason that most of these games follow the same schemes: you kill a bunch of dumb enemies that bum-rush you with a handful of poor tactics, you upgrade your gear, you level up your character, etc. etc. etc. That's basically all you do. There may be differing types and amounts of filler content and distractions, but those are the concepts that define ARPG's.

The other main issue showing up is impatience. There are a slew of issues being worked on that the devs have told us about and surely many more that are still under wraps. Literally every single issue mentioned in the OP is under development and improvements. Just about every other issue mentioned here has been reported on by devs as at least being in consideration for improvement, if not already being worked on. Yet, people still complain about them as if this is the end state of the game.

PoE is most certainly not going to be 100% enjoyable for everyone in all aspects. There is absolutely no way to make it so, as fun is entirely subjective. You can't objectively make something fun; it's impossible. The devs started off making a game that they, subjectively, found to be fun. They are now altering it based on others' subjective feelings of what is fun and what isn't.

Alright guys. Time to chill a bit. This argument is getting a little too heated and pointless. Let's drop it and move on. I'm not going to lock the thread because I think it has at least some redeeming value.

@Witblablabla

Now I'm getting angry and people know me quite well in aRPG forums. So expect something along "permaximum" lines before reading further. What I'm gonna write happened publicly so I feel there's nothing wrong to remember it.

Fact 1: I became an alpha member before you were... I became an alpha member before everyone from the community except two people which were selected in 0.7.0. There were two other members with me too in fact.

Fact 2: You were crying out like a baby why GGG selected me and the other two members but not you. You were very harshly criticizing GGG for such an absurd thing like this. And you posted at least 2 threads and mentioned it in every possible topic. I saw what kind of person you are 9 months ago.

Fact 3: Suddenly now you defend GGG and the game's current state without thinking about the stupidity of your posts. Your personality is very obvious to me.

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You continue to do demagogy. But you don't even know what's that and you can't learn everything from wikipedia. There are more than a few meanings of it and I used it as to contort a word out of its ordinary meaning and hide it with emotions/expectations/sightly attitude etc.

I can't remember you've shown me the two top MMOs. Show them and their PVP servers' load compared with PVE servers.

I'm not saying it isn't going to get better and you know that. But somehow you continue to act like an idiot. The game will ofc get better. But I suspect it will be enough for the public taste.

OFC I'm saying mostly negative things about PoE since I became an alpha member. Because that's what i'm meant to do. But you can't even find one post which I criticize PoE and GGG in public. Also I rarely post in the forums. Doesn't matter alpha beta normal. BTW I don't remember that you have become an employee of GGG.

No, I don't think those buyable improved animations will be enough.

I only see problem when I see your posts. I can't count your clueless debates with x,y,z people. GGG does mistakes and I hope they learn from their mistakes. Your selection after what you did publicly was one of them.

Edit: Reminder to beta testers if there are anyone don't know the status of us.

Alpha testers and beta/official forum moderators are not employees of GGG. I don't want you to think someone in GGG team criticizes their bosses. Also what we say (alpha members/moderators) doesn't represent GGG's own thoughts.

GGG is the best game developer I have seen when it comes to communication with their community and they are nice guys. Some of us just criticize the current state of the game to see PoE will do better in the end.

i'd like to add few things after reading all of your posts:

1. some of you say: "you should not expect much from low budget devs, you should not expect much from f2p game, you should not expect much from arpg". i say: why not?! i bet they have their goals like releasing quality game, building huge player base, and making some money on the game. but we are not in early 90's now. pc-games market is huge, there are so many games out there. my point: there's so much choice for us - gamers, so... only the best games will survive. again: why not expect much? its not flash-game or facebook game. it is supposed to be competitive for great titles out there in the genre, and i expect all the best things.

2. some of you compare PoE to diablo or D2, and all this comparison comes to: its kinda same as diablo, or it's worse. we will always compare any arpg to diablo, as it is mother and father and god of all arpgs. but the thing is: why many of us dont play diablo any more (or wow, or starcraft etc...). cause we've been there, we ultimately tasted every inch of this world. now, if PoE is 'kinda same as diablo', theres no chance for it to be big. why ? cause we are looking for something new in games. diablo was fresh, epic and one of a kind back in the days. i feel theres nothing fresh nor epic about PoE. thats why we spent years playing diablo, but many of us got bored of PoE after few days/weeks or even months.

3. everyone got his own reasoning why gettin bored with PoE, and arguing about way of putting it in words is pointless. "it's wrong and i'm right", "no, you only think you are right, but you are not, cause i'm right", "no, my 'right' is more right then your 'right'. jeess.

My 'right' is that gameplay is 'kinda same as diablo' and, imho, its not cool. and like i said before: the game is piss easy. theres plenty of ways to change that, but some1 said something like "you built your char right way, and around 1 skill". there's no way to build char around 1 skill huh ? i was juts using heavy strike as it's dmg is high. and yeah, i built my char the best way i could, is it my fault? Are you saying that i should build melee witch or ice caster ranger to have some fun? i dont think thats the way it should work. i did my best and 1-shot everything @ normal, 1-shot everything @ cruel etc etc. but i followed this build cause i thought 'end game will be harder for sure'. it wasnt, and thats also fail.

The game also seems to be missing something to me. I played D2 for thousands of hours over ten years because of the replay value, it was just fun to play. I really hope they implement something like this, it would go very far in creating end game content that had lasting value. In fact, it would go further than D2 did in creating that.

Developers really need to consider end game content more, it's vital to long term success.

"

Wittgenstein escreveu:

1. so again, forcing players into items is fine, forcing them into passive skills is wrong. I don't see any difference.

It's one fact more, the player(s) have to "worry" (read: think) about it - maybe too much worry for some ^^

"

saymar escreveu:

2. some of you compare PoE to diablo or D2, and all this comparison comes to: its kinda same as diablo, or it's worse. we will always compare any arpg to diablo, as it is mother and father and god of all arpgs. but the thing is: why many of us dont play diablo any more (or wow, or starcraft etc...). cause we've been there, we ultimately tasted every inch of this world. now, if PoE is 'kinda same as diablo', theres no chance for it to be big. why ? cause we are looking for something new in games. diablo was fresh, epic and one of a kind back in the days. i feel theres nothing fresh nor epic about PoE. thats why we spent years playing diablo, but many of us got bored of PoE after few days/weeks or even months.

So, D3 also had no chance? Or, isnt it 'kinda same as D2'? The original Diablo was a breakthrough for the genre, D2 was the milestone; from that, every ARPG has had to show how much it can add or make different in the meaning of better... how many could truly convince for a longer time?

Other fact: does the boredom of so many of the beta testers didnt have its source in the impatience of so much of the people? (in generally, not only from the view of games)
Sometimes I think, we are changed well more since D2 came out then a game could ever adapt....

Let it be known. Permaximum has been put on probation. Just because you may be an alpha member or you've been around for a long time doesn't mean you can ignore me (or any other moderator) when I tell you to sit your ass down. Period.

Witt, don't push me or I won't hesitate to do the same to you. This argument ends now. No exceptions.

The rest of you may continue your discussion.