[feedback] bored to death

I think the big problem here for me is the amount of difficulties. Three of them is already a lot but four is too much (I am not counting chaos, that is fine as it isn't really playing through the same game again). By the time I get to merciless, I sit there and think to myself, "I really don't think I can go through this again."

Please stop listening to the people that say the game is too hard (heard Chris say it in either an interview or one of the youtube videos of him playing). Don't add more difficulties as an excuse to make the game harder. Should just be hard, harder, really dicking hard. Lots of enemies with player skills that are capable of killing lots of enemies with the right equipment and build.

On that note, the skills need a lot of work. Killing one enemy at a time is not fun for me and I am going to just assume it is not fun for the vast majority of people. Skills with multiple hits, area effects on hits, and so on. There just really isn't a whole lot going on in terms of skills. If support gems are going to be how skills grow, then you are going to need hundreds more of them, and that may become terrible.

I do also agree with the passive tree. Leveling up becomes a chore when you get so little reward for your work. Instead of saying "Next level I will get this!," I find myself saying, "In 20 levels I may be able to do 50% more damage!" The same goes for the skill gems. There is nothing like leveling a skill gem so it can have a .5 second longer duration and having the mana cost go up 1.

The amount of acts plays a large role in the "it gets boring" aspect, but it isn't the only role. The acts that are in place need a lot more randomization. I still find myself going the correct way on the first try like 90% of the time (doesn't help when the wrong way areas are empty of enemies.) Most of the levels don't require you to even have to explore as you just go left to right. You may as well just have an open field with waves of enemies, and then when you defeat them, the game prompts you with options on what area you want next.

Sound can be fixed along with skill animations. I find that you guys do a great job making skills look better (even though I think the core mechanics of most of these skills needs to change) and I am sure you will keep doing this. I know you also want to make money so you have to be able to 1up yourself later and that is understandable. The sound issue is mostly just a bug with the sound channels. The one thing I don't enjoy about the sound at the moment is just the music. It really doesn't set much of a mood for me. It's just there

Please, I don't mean to sound like an ass here. I really want this game to be something special. I have been following it since it was first shown and I think some of the ideas it has are fantastic if given the right adjustments.

The fact that ALL of the content can be played through in less than 3 hours should be a very serious sign to the Devs that there isn't even remotely enough content.

Players' mentalities are changing, there are lots of great games out there and more options every day. These days, playing the same content over and over isn't going to cut it.

For all the folks who say "but that's what an ARPG is! Deal or gtfo" there are many more who think they have better things to do than rinse and repeat, they have other games to play.

Also, there needs to be some additional differentiation between classes. It's great that everything is wide open, but adding some sort of inherent abilities to each class would make them more distinct, and likely make me more interested in trying out each one.

As it stands now, I feel like I have no real motivation to try other classes beyond their starting point in the tree.

i'm happy with the game and crafting system so far.

what do u expect? i expected a dungeon crawler/item game in the spirit of d2 with some small inovations.. and thats exactly what u get here.


u need shitloads of orbs with random chances if u want to use it as currency. (theres allready some to perfect stuff like divine or blessed)
the crafting system is fine. u need some knowledge when its worth using them.

a common player or a guy that wants to equip different builds with decent stuff is way better of to trade higher orbs for good gear. they really should tread higher orbs as currency and just use lower orbs on the playthrou. for hardcore gamers or pvp guys every % matters. they will farm/mf to trade for that orbs to squeeze the last out of their gear or craft items with key mods.

i both found and crafted some godly stuff its not easy but possible. and it should be hard. the point is u dont need a 6linked armour or a 200% ed weapon to play throu the whole game. in fact a 4linked piece and a decent blue weapon is enough atm if u build your character right.
for crafting u need knowledge and luck and u also need a different mindset. always expect the worst possible outcome :)

"

aurisacra escreveu:

Also, there needs to be some additional differentiation between classes. It's great that everything is wide open, but adding some sort of inherent abilities to each class would make them more distinct, and likely make me more interested in trying out each one.

As it stands now, I feel like I have no real motivation to try other classes beyond their starting point in the tree.

They are working on some modification in the passive skills... announced along with changes the 6th class will demand.

And, the fact that every class has its own prefered (innate) style + kind of (esp.) weapon but is freely to choose the way you lead them, fits perfectly into the intent GGG calls to have. For example, the ranger is the class build around bows (not only). So there is the easiest way to support bow as weapon, in the near path around the ranger... even if any other class could choose a bow too, they will take distinctly more effort to reach supporting passives for it. It is possible to do so, but it limits your charbuild in one or more ways - and so it is a practicable and designated way to increase the difficulty for the desired class. (this, what's called a unusual, extraordinary build)

Right, but that doesn't make any class particularly distinct over another - it all comes down to starting in the tree in the best position for what you want to use the tree for.

Each character could essentially be a nameless/genderless/featureless mannequin with a # corresponding to it's starting position in the tree.

Don't get me wrong - I like the potential freedom of the tree, but I still think there needs to be some inherent qualities that distinguish each class beyond the purely aesthetic.

As cool as the freedom is, the fact that any "class" can use any weapon/item takes away from the idea of having distinct classes if there's nothing else to it.

"

Chris escreveu:

We'd like the end-game to be more challenging. However, whenever we make changes that make it harder, the amount of negative feedback is overwhelming. One challenge is how to frame stuff so that players understand that it's meant to be super difficult and take a large amount of clever character development and great items to conquer.

I know the feedback from the fanbase is very important. But, maybe you shouldn't listen to those who scream it's "to hard" or "to easy".. you'll always have those folks. Some people will say it's to easy, just because they think it makes them seem better.. some will say it's to hard simply because they don't have time to play for 40 minutes straight...

Like it or not, decisions will be made that will instantly turn off a certain % of the gaming world. That's fine, all products that are subjectively judged must do this. The studio said that Raging Bull should be in color, because the audience wouldn't accept a black and white film... Scorsese said, he didn't care, it was his film.

In any event, the "to hard" and "to easy" comments should really be ignored until the difficulty adjustment has been live for an adequate amount of time, just like any "nerf" or "buff" you may do. People love to fly off the handle.

"

tpapp157 escreveu:

Let it be known. Permaximum has been put on probation. Just because you may be an alpha member or you've been around for a long time doesn't mean you can ignore me (or any other moderator) when I tell you to sit your ass down. Period.

Witt, don't push me or I won't hesitate to do the same to you. This argument ends now. No exceptions.

The rest of you may continue your discussion.

Let it be known. I was the one suggested tpapp as a moderator and I was wrong to assume he would be a good moderator.

Also just because your title is different in the beta forums doesn't mean you can give orders to me or anyone without a logical reason.

Now sit your ass down and do the moderation work we gave you for beta forums (there's not a moderator in alpha forums), in justice. Don't get angry because of your ego and act without thinking in the future.

We can continue to discussion from where we left now...

what an intense topic:)

to add my opinion: I also think there should be more diversity of mobs and mob behaviour. I support those who say this is the right way to increase difficulty. For example:

- bosses with massive but avoidable attacks that most likely one-shot you, so you have to be very careful and react fast when fighting against them

- healing or resurrecting mobs which should be eliminated first.

- teleporting or stealthed mobs

- more AI, mobs that try to move out from aoe if you dont stun, slow or freeze them, spread out sometimes then gather and attack you again at once.

- maybe a bit shorter aggro-range, it is literally impossible to manage staff in inventory or on skill tree in a dungeon because mobs keep coming from God knows where when you cleared out a 10 km2 area around yourself, where do they keep coming from one by one? It's not challenge but pure annoyance.

In my eye´s atleast i see perfect class distinctions. It´s all clear in my head atleast ^^

If a person is specced as a summoner. His class is Necromancer.

If a person is specced as a tank. He is a Knight.

If a person i specced as on 2-hander and marauder. he is a Barbarian.



To me atleast , i don´t see the "class" as a specific and definite choice of what he is playing as.

Since you can spec how-ever you like. Your "class" will not be defined until you have specced your character that you picked to start the game with.


In a perfect world for me in this game. I would like to see it as this.



You just decide at start what character you want to play. Duelist , Ranger , Marauder , Witch etc etc.

Now you have just picked your Base Character that you want to play as.

But then , as you play and lv up. If you pick allot of Summon passives. Your "title" will change to Necromancer.

If you go on allot of 2-hander passives. Your "title" or in this case now , "Class" will show as Barbarian.

Your "Class" would not show until you have started to pick some passives that are in the same type of field.

And seeing as how many possible mixes there are in the tree. There would be allot of "Sub-classes" on every "Class"

Think Baldurs Gate or Never Winter Nights. There you had a core group of "Classes" but as you lv up and did your picks , you could change your "Class" to something ether deeper in that "class" or mix it with another type of "class" , giving us a "duel-class" or "multi-class"

You could adapt the same thing here.

Just that your "class" is defined by the choices you make in the passive tree.

It would end the discussion on who-is-what , and also give a distinct showcase of what "class" a person is.



Lets say you first pick 6 nodes of Minion passives. *Poff* You now got a title under your name saying Necromancer.

Lets say you now add 6 passive nodes of Spell Dmg. *Poff* You now got your Title (class) turned into Warlock. Since you now not only focus on Summons but also on Spell Dmg.


You now have "class" distinction , You now have a tone of possible "classes" for ppl to try and find out.

You could even give certain bonuses out to every different "class".

But as i told you , this is how i already see it. I just see knights , necromancers , sorcerers , Twigg-Bashers and all that ^^


But until that part of the game i just done , i think you will just have to live with it like me :)

Just picture ppl being the "class" that they are specced as. And life will be allot calmer for you ^^

And i am putting this in my suggestion place dmn it ! cause i like it , and yes Mark you may smite me for a double post =)

"

permaximum escreveu:

Also just because your title is different in the beta forums doesn't mean you can give orders to me or anyone without a logical reason.

Actually it does. But that's beside the point. The real point is that if you continue to spam the forums I'll be forced to take additional action against you. There are rules and for some reason you feel that you're above them when you're simply not.

The choice is up to you really. You can stop this whole tantrum which I've now warned you about multiple times publicly and privately or I can start taking more drastic disciplinary measures. Take your pick. At this point you've exhausted my good will and my patience so just try me.