[feedback] bored to death

okidoke. Sorry for any issues.


So,

Back on topic...

I think the boredom issue is actually a positive thing to a certain degree. Those who are bored, how many hours did you play before this boredom set in? (and I'll be honest, I am not playing nearly as much as I used to.. waiting for new skills/last class/third act really)

If you're anything like me, you've probably sunk in a sizable amount of time into the first 2 acts of a game, and then invested some more.

Now, if that is the case, I think it speaks volumes for what GGG has done here.

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saymar escreveu:

My 'right' is that gameplay is 'kinda same as diablo' and, imho, its not cool. and like i said before: the game is piss easy. theres plenty of ways to change that, but some1 said something like "you built your char right way, and around 1 skill". there's no way to build char around 1 skill huh ? i was juts using heavy strike as it's dmg is high. and yeah, i built my char the best way i could, is it my fault? Are you saying that i should build melee witch or ice caster ranger to have some fun? i dont think thats the way it should work. i did my best and 1-shot everything @ normal, 1-shot everything @ cruel etc etc. but i followed this build cause i thought 'end game will be harder for sure'. it wasnt, and thats also fail.

Pretty accurate points. As far as i am concerned in this issue;
What GGG lacks in is the point that they do not take the best ever builds off each types to scale the difficulty, whether its on spreadsheet or not. They take the worst builds ever to be created, which in fact unlikely many starters could had achieved, and decide it upon drawing a line between them. Thus when we come to (current) end game, there leaves nothing to be talked/lived as "challenge" honestly. And the boredom speaks out its words.

Diablo 1 had managed the difficulty scaling quite well for its time, and honestly its better than PoE for the moment, obviously. Not one-hitting monsters even on early levels, or later. This has to be taken as a note imo. The scaling is just too important issue regarding to take fun off the game, and its replay value.

Chris has said many times that PoE is not gonna be one's casual arpg, it will be challenging and suit hardcore players' needs. But quite honestly, i feel like GGG been taking this progress a bit too long, i mean so many people asking PoE to be a lot more challenging and though to be finished (in its current state) for a long time, and bringing this issue massively, especially recently.

What makes me anxious about the future of the game is: have not see any dev giving answer to any of these questions, or informed at the very least regarding the difficulty scalings in general. I always have dreamed Poe to be really challenging and fun for hardcore players, and not a casual players' biased game.

And from what i have been understanding is that GGG do not care about hardcore players more than casual players all around, which makes me quite sad. Casual players could be found everywhere and every moment in realtime, but hardcore players.

So what i really want to point out that GGG should listen carefully hardcore players A LOT MORE, hear our calls, and head to the way where the real deal dwells beneath.

----Wall of text crits you for A+G dmg----


I can relate to many of the things , doing the same thing over and over. And feeling the lack of things.

But for me atleast i know why i feel so.


I have played games of this type since the old days of Commandor 128 on the 80´s

And under the years i have seen many good titles , and many not so great. And for me the feeling of things just being boring from time to time is just as simple as this.


I have seen it , i have played it , in many shapes and form´s , but in the core , it´s just the same. Year out and year in. I have already done more or less the same in every game.

BUT , in the end , what matters to me is HOW it was done , what was the twist to a good concept ? What was that added personal flare from the gaming company ? What was it that not made the game just another Diablo. And made it into Dungeon Siege , Titan Quest and so on.

If i like it or not , since i first held that game in my hands when i open´d the big mail box that i got. And after i had played it. I would always measure every new game i got of that type against Diablo 1.

And i still do , the music , the old drunken fellow i always talked to.

But one big difference now that was not available to ppl before at such a big lv. The ability to join in on Beta testing , hammering a game over and over again. Before it is even done. The downside of this is , as many of you have so frustrated pointed out.

A million things are just not correct. Lv´s are wrong , monsters are wrong , bosses are wrong , skills are wrong , resets on chars , the list is endless.

But thats what a beta is about. testing out all the possible right or wrong things. But above all , sticking to your world on what the game is about , the concept and idea & tone that they want to set on the game.

Cause i really have no patience for a developer that at some point just caves in and does what the masses want instead of what was set out to be done at the start.

Dungeon siege 3 is my prime example there. DS 1 & 2 i praise allot , and they gave me & my friend many many times o joy. They promised a up-hotted version of this in DS 3 at the start. They got massive critic about many things , and changed it all.

And the game is now at bargain bins around my place atleast. And not a single person i know bought it. Since they destroyed what we all could relate to. And created something that just was not Dungeon Siege.

I have pointed out allot of things in my movies on the game that i just find boring , crap , lacking and so on. Also having posted feedback allot at the start.

Now i only post ideas from time to time. And hardly any feedback. Why ?

Because of all the over 40 things i wanted and hoped that they would fix / change. GGG fixed it all , and allot more. Sure , if something just feels very very wrong , testers should raise there voice about it.

But when doing that , be specific about just what it is that is the problem. Allot of the things i have read in this tread you have ppl right away ask back to the person...

What do you mean by this ?

What do you mean by that ?

Or just flame away cause it´s just coming of like the person is just a arrogant fellow that expects the devs to read there minds on what is really the core problem for you.

My tip atleast for some of you would be to just , take a break from the game. And come back when it´s 0.9.6 or 9.7 or 9.8 and so on.

You have played the beta / are playing the beta so much that there is no surprise that you get bored since by the time the next big patch comes , you have already done you lvl 50+ for the fifth time :)

A beta can only be enjoyed to a certain limit , then all you want to do , know etc will be all done and ready. And you have nothing more to do.

Or , if you fancy something new , since allot of you have many things to say about the game.

Record some game-play. Talk about what you like / dislike and post it :)

I atleast notice new things every recording i do almost , but then again i look at all things from tiny rocks , to hill formation , tree´s etc etc etc , to just the fact that i recently noticed that when i take the glyph from the eggs in Mud Flats , the yellow of the egg flows out into the nest.

Things like that make me excited , because it shows attention to detail. And for me , it is the tiny things all over that will make the game last for me.

Yes i want cool skills that destroys things , make things fly all over and god know what. But all does things will still not do it for me , if just all the things around me just does not do it for me.

The mood is still a lacking here and there , for sure. But i still can see where it is going , and the changes that happen. Since i do the game-play movies and redo many places to just , look what is new ? have they sneaked something in ?

And now and then they do , or even point out to me if i could have a better look at some areas. Or other player points things out to me i had just missed.

But in the end , we can see that they are making changes , they do listen to us , and if you listen to most recent interviews with Chris you get to know even more things and also how we stand on some points that we talk allot about.

You even have the possibility to talk directly to the Devs on PM if there is something you really feel needs attention. Or something you have noticed that is just wrong , bugged etc.

By now i can say that i am more or less a fan-boy. But when i think of how open the relation is with the devs , and that they listen and adapt. How can i not be ?

The frustrations are understandable , but still , i feel that to expect a Closed beta stage game to be on pair with a ready game that has been out a long time , is stretching it. And you are bound for a let-down for sure.

That said i by no means want the rants , critic and so on to stop. I want it to continue. Cause you can debate how you should present your thoughts so that they get understood to the fullest all you want.

But if the testers did not speak there mind , the devs would have nothing to go on. And if there are things that , as here, really angers or makes ppl feel a let-down by the game. Then they should talk about it.

Because this is the beta after all. And this is the time to try and get the changes you want , done to the game.

But we can still always hope that when you start your capsing and flaming , that you after a min or two. Just stop , erase it , and restart at a calmer state ^^


Now my rants have been going o for some time. So i will let you read up. And maybe we can continue this discussion :)

Because there are allot of valid points being made.

@BrecMadak
Biasing a game towards 'hardcore' part of community is a bad option especially for a f2p title.

Since I got opportunity to play PoE pre-beta I can ensure you PoE was hardcore and pretty much impossible to play in later diff and it wasn't much more appealing than current state.
Not that I have anything against a game being hard or sth, I pretty much always play games on highest difficulty (especially new ones with their deflated diff) but imo games should attract ppl in different manner. Beginning should be charming, late game should be demanding, that's how I see it.

The problem with PoE is that game doesn't deliver later on.
Instead of being easy to play hard to master it's more like the other way around.
It's hard to get into the game, game throws a lot of weird and complicated concepts at you but as you sort that out and learn few basics it's starts to be easier and easier.

I agree with permaximum, that most of the game mechanics just look complicated (therefore they are hard to get) but in fact they lack depth.
For example there's thousands possible options within the passive tree, it's overwhelming for 'noobs', but those zillion options are resulting just in a few viable builds for every class.
Those few builds per class could be provided by a basic perk system (per every 5 lvl or so) or just by polishing other concepts like attribs and skill gems, making game much easier to learn and allow ppl to focus on shaping their chars as they want them to be instead of scanning passive tree for half hour searching for useful nodes.
Style over substance with passives definitely.

That basically sums up my issues with the web, a lot of it just seems redundant.

Now, I understand that they have provided a reason for the redundancy, specifically that multiple nodes with the same function need to be distributed about the web in order to provide an opportunity for every player (regardless of where they start, or what their build is) access to those nodes.

However, much easier system would be, to give a certain amount of passive points upon leveling. If you want to raise your defense, you click on +defense.. and it's done. same with any other passive, and keystones are unlocked at certain levels.

Now the web is gone, as is the bewilderment of new players.

*always found it odd that GGG has this complex web system forced upon new players, and thats fine, but they believe you can't give new players mod gems (the most distinctive part of PoE imo) earlier because they are afraid of confusing new players..

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ness escreveu:

@BrecMadak
Biasing a game towards 'hardcore' part of community is a bad option especially for a f2p title.

Well, from PoE's current state, if we draw a line its not hard to see that the current red dot is WAY too close to the casual players' camp as i think you are also aware of this problematic stuation. And i don't think this stuation is any better than the one if this had have been inverse.

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ness escreveu:

Not that I have anything against a game being hard or sth, I pretty much always play games on highest difficulty (especially new ones with their deflated diff) but imo games should attract ppl in different manner. Beginning should be charming, late game should be demanding, that's how I see it.

Would agree if it had been including a bit more threatening moments additionally, just see Diablo I's early difficulty scaling, and you are done.

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ness escreveu:

The problem with PoE is that game doesn't deliver later on.
Instead of being easy to play hard to master it's more like the other way around.
It's hard to get into the game, game throws a lot of weird and complicated concepts at you but as you sort that out and learn few basics it's starts to be easier and easier.

After the very much needed tooltips, and essential informations are to be integrated, along with missing infos/vagues are ceased to exist, a lot of the current clutters would be solved in time i hope. And, agree the game does not deliver us living scrambles, as you said the game tends to get to be easier and easier as you progress, which should be totally in the opposite way.

These problems will always prevent hardcore players from having fun, its overt.

And i just do not have any slightest idea that why devs have been behaving so uncommitted and reluctantly "slow" when it comes to making a decision for scaling up the difficulty, not that i don't know its a continuum ? I mean i feel like as if i am in a slow motion or something when this issue is discussed.

Maybe you are taking bad approach.

Instead of adding another zero to mobs damage or hp values (I'm simplifying but you know what I mean) you should add more different kind of monsters and/or monster attacks.

Like some kind of attacks similar to Diablo lightning/inferno from D2.
So not a hitscan attack like those in PoE currently, rather continuous damage at certain direction. There were a lot of such mobs in D2 (those winged deamons in act4, shamans in act3, and those resurecting undeads in act2) and they were pretty dangerous if a player approached them "banzai style".
They could damage a player greatly but it could be avoided manually by kiting and moving around (PoE pretty much doesn't force players to move their ass around).

Also more elemental damage on mobs (that unique boss on terraces is a nice addition) there should be A LOT more of them.
Imho like 1/3 or even more mobs should deal elemental damage, not those lone skeletons in 3 areas out of 40.
Maybe some more poison (damage over time on some area).
There's a lot possibilities to spice things up besides just trying to boost/nerf 'global values'.

Make mobs run and provide some more crowd control skills (now with bigger FOV running mobs shouldn't be as annoying as before).

It requires some work but well nothing good comes without effort :P

And last but not least Chris.
Sit down with guys in office and do a brainstorm about some core concepts and their effect on gameplay/players behavior/and fun factor of the game.
What they are providing to the game and at what cost (every action has its reaction every coin has 2 sides).
And think about priorities.
What is more important to PoE?
To attract players - make game fun?
Or to try to resolve some potential problems with balance/gameplay/economy?
I think that some concepts were introduced to address the latter without proper evaluation how would they affect the first one which imo should be the priority.

And try to stay low profile. Don't try to solve all issues that are hurting online arpgs, don't try to be different in every aspect. More is rarely better in mechanics side in opposite to content. Make mechanics simple to get, less options but make everyone meaningful. Now we are flooded with options but a lot of them doesn't play any role, they are no-factor.
Like I don't think that we need much more skills and supports.
We need more good skills and good supports.
There were a lot attack skills added since I joined in but I'm still using the same that were available then. Those new are just mostly bad.
Do a copycating if you can't come up with anything useful, bring us cheese. Chain lightning, static charge, zeal instead of double strike etc.

Geez I'm not whining, I'm really concerned about future of this game.

I know you are pretty late in developing process but those blizz folks pulled out similar huge changes just before the start of global beta. If something is bad and you can try to address that, especially by simplifying things there's never too late.

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Chris escreveu:

We'd like the end-game to be more challenging. However, whenever we make changes that make it harder, the amount of negative feedback is overwhelming. One challenge is how to frame stuff so that players understand that it's meant to be super difficult and take a large amount of clever character development and great items to conquer.

Take a look in this thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/17101

It offers a very good solution to your problem.

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Chris escreveu:

We'd like the end-game to be more challenging. However, whenever we make changes that make it harder, the amount of negative feedback is overwhelming. One challenge is how to frame stuff so that players understand that it's meant to be super difficult and take a large amount of clever character development and great items to conquer.

perhaps you could go for 2 steps of farming. I guess it would feel odd to farm waterfallcave to get ready for Chaos.
Get back the Chaos 57 and make it a farmplace where you can and HAVE TO get full 58 gear...at the 11th level of Chaos 57 you put a super boss as item test who is really hard. If you were able to beat him you get to the "Terror Zone" (with a separate wp and perhaps level 60 monsters) or something like that, where you use some more gloomy and "scary" tilesets (of course would have to take some of them out of the Chaos pool) and make it really hard.