Feedback and Suggestions (Path of Exile 1) - Comprehensive feedback - Fórum

" coli escreveu: Increase the god damn map drop already... Someone needs a hug.	Postado por SL4Y3R#7487 em 22 de mar. de 2013 22:12:02 Banido Citar este Post
" CanHasPants escreveu: We all know the core issues of melee, so I won't reiterate, but the main problem I'll discuss is (imo) creating incentive to play in melee over range. However, given the current state of the game, most all defenses either work or they don't, and most attacks are specced to 1-2 hit most mobs. What room is there to improve melee without make them too good (nigh invulnerable) that isn't also equally beneficial for ranged, and how do you adress kill speed when you can't kill any faster than 1-hitting, mobility and threat reach being part of issue..? <snip> This (lack of play style disparity in a free form skill environment) is in large part due to power creep, where the current numbers are so large that they're situationally boolean, leaving little room to provide benefit according to the risk melee takes, when ranged already has full access to those benefits, with the added benefit of distance between they and packs (defense) and significantly extended threat reach (kill speed without such emphasis on mobility). At risk of sounding like a broken record, nothing can be truly changed for the better without reducing the numbers across the board (nip power creep in the ass), such that fights take longer and allow room for melee to flourish. Very good point right there. I was thinking about that dilemma and came to a similar solution: - reduce damage output of mobs by about 50% - increase mob health by about 100% - increase unique and rare mob health by another 25% - reduce ranged aoe damage slightly - leave ranged single target damage alone - buff melee aoe damage slightly - buff melee single target damage massively (like 50% or more). Some support gems make this a bit complicated, but that can be worked around. If the end result is that adding LMP or similar stuff to single target spells is not a no-brainer decision anymore, I say mission accomplished. The overall point of these changes would be to a) give melee, especially single target melee, a niche as the only abilities that could reliable 1- or 2-shot most normal mobs as well as a much stronger bossfight abilities. I gives builds a strong reason to run two different or at least two differently supported abilities as their main attacks and actually use both on a regular basis. Additionally, damage intake would be less spiky overall, the gameplay difference between offensive and defensive builds would be more pronounced and tactical positioning abilities would become stronger, because combats are not over in one second anyways.	Postado por Stormfox#3549 em 22 de mar. de 2013 22:36:56 Citar este Post
" CanHasPants escreveu: I've been thinking, and am curious to hear what Moos et al think of this. Also: Disclaimer: As usual I just woke up. Am never really awake enough to post a coherent thesis and supporting points when I just wake up, yet this is the only time I really have to post. Add on top of that I am sick as a dog atm.. So please bare with my ramblings, I may not adequately express what I mean and am thinking :) We all know the core issues of melee, so I won't reiterate, but the main problem I'll discuss is (imo) creating incentive to play in melee over range. However, given the current state of the game, most all defenses either work or they don't, and most attacks are specced to 1-2 hit most mobs. What room is there to improve melee without make them too good (nigh invulnerable) that isn't also equally beneficial for ranged, and how do you adress kill speed when you can't kill any faster than 1-hitting, mobility and threat reach being part of issue..? It seems to me that the real issue here is the entire concept of building a "classless" game where any starting point / skin / voice actor can spec into any play style, with passives, gear, and skill gems being openly available to any class. Compare to a game that has specific class skill trees, those classes are inherently restricted in their options, which mechanically allows melee to achieve things ranged cannot, and vice versa. The freedom of movement we have here, ironically, has revealed and made extreme the inherent strengths of ranged and weaknesses of melee; because any "class" can do anything any other can do, ranged will inevitably be better than anything melee can do. Restricted class skill trees overcome this by imposing superficial restrictions to one style to allow the other room to flourish. This (lack of play style disparity in a free form skill environment) is in large part due to power creep, where the current numbers are so large that they're situationally boolean, leaving little room to provide benefit according to the risk melee takes, when ranged already has full access to those benefits, with the added benefit of distance between they and packs (defense) and significantly extended threat reach (kill speed without such emphasis on mobility). At risk of sounding like a broken record, nothing can be truly changed for the better without reducing the numbers across the board (nip power creep in the ass), such that fights take longer and allow room for melee to flourish. Furthermore, it seems that there is something missing fundamentally from the core mechanics, that should distinguish melee from ranged. Something that, even though both melee and ranged can have access to both on the skilldrasil and through gear and skills, inherently provides greater benefit to a melee play style. Only thing I can really think of is the suggested keystone that makes armour function like point blank, except made a core mechanic of armour* rather than being optional. In this way AR ranged toons will not gain both benefits of being at ranged (safety and reach) and benefit from the full DR that melee would, meanwhile melee will definitely benefit from its tendency to close the gap. *Perhaps that should be both AR and EV, there can be EV melee too :) Any who, enough rambling. Time to get ready for work. Bleggh... Like I said already, I've begged for them to bring the damage down and they haven't so they seem to want it there so we need to find solutions considering. With that, I think there needs to be DR and life given to melee builds. Something like +X% life when using 1h/2h/dw or a keystone that improves DR depending on how far or close you are to a mob (although a melee toon taking damage from a range mob would get boned). I do think just like their increased damage for certain weapons and weapon types their should be EHP, especially in a classless tree as the only difference really is being a caster, projectile user or melee. Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063 Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856	Postado por Moosifer#0314 em 23 de mar. de 2013 00:38:34 Membro Alpha Citar este Post
GGG are hesitant bring the damage down because they always want a risk of dying and they dont want facetanking in the game to be too easy Its a reason why armor is they way it is for example Última edição por deteego#6606 em 23 de mar. de 2013 00:54:36	Postado por deteego#6606 em 23 de mar. de 2013 00:45:57 Citar este Post
RE: Progression I agree. It seems grinding in act 3 isn't really an option due to the maze-like map sets. I would like to see a mid-range set redesigned into a more linear style. Market should be a 1-way winding path or some such with the statue boss near the end. RE: Mana I really don't like the way the passive tree is set up for mana. All classes need mana just like all classes need EHP. Why then don't all classes have adequate mana near their starting areas? Mana leach is useless until you start doing really good damage. Clarity helps but also requires a large pool of mana and mana regen% to really shine. This all combines to pigeon hole certain classes into things like blood magic or EB...Destroys build diversity and makes for boring replay value. RE: Melee Agree 100%. I would also like to see more reflex based defensive skills with melee squarely in mind. RE: EHP Agree. The lines between life and ES are starting to blur big time. Take away ES's recharge and they are virtually the same. RE: Keystones I agree, somewhat. Some of the keystones do need a rework to bring them in line with the plus/minus theme of the other keystones. GGG needs to be very careful with these though. Buff them too much and they become mandatory. Nerf them too much and they are just more clutter on the passive tree that no one who knows what they are doing would ever bother with. RE: Attributes I don't agree that they all give EHP. Dex gives you dodge and accuracy. You can argue that dodge is a form of damage mitigation but when it fails you take the full amount of damage (as I understand it). When this is combined with the lack of HP nodes near the heart of the DEX tree it makes dex look really weak compared to the other two attributes. I agree STR is king, but I always felt DEX was the weakest attribute of the three. RE: Class Balancing I don't have a problem with the classes having a set of 'favored builds'. But, as you say, this 'set' is limited to just a few possible choices for most of them. The latest update to the Duelist's tree has managed to make that class relevant but only if you are going dual-wield/2-handed physical. I don't have a problem with the Duelist being the 'King of Dual Wielding' but they should have better passive clusters for that then any other class. I think that a possible solution to this could be to make more of the local class passives that are very specific, i.e. '% to swords' or '% to dual wielding' should be more powerful than the less restrictive 'one-handed' and '2-handed' passives. RE: Maps I've only run a few maps here and there. I get a character to the point where the leveling is starting to slow way down and I get bored and start a new character. Personally I don't think leveling should slow to a crawl until around level 88-90 (100 max) but I understand that there is a whole other act to be added to the game and the leveling process will speed up when it is added. BTW, the few maps I did run didn't give me much of a reward in the way of items and if you die, even once, they net you a negative in XP. Not exactly the post-end game content I was hoping for.....	Postado por ZhugeLiang#2199 em 23 de mar. de 2013 02:13:26 Citar este Post
" deteego escreveu: GGG are hesitant bring the damage down because they always want a risk of dying and they dont want facetanking in the game to be too easy Its a reason why armor is they way it is for example Well they achived their goal .No one facetanks anything because every top HC player plays ranged IGN Nordes	Postado por dark_madmax#3928 em 23 de mar. de 2013 04:10:53 Citar este Post
" SL4Y3R escreveu: " coli escreveu: Increase the god damn map drop already... Someone needs a hug. Even his wordings sound like whining you don't understand his point as somebody who plays much and seems to like MMO. PoE became a MMO like Grinfestival. To get many drops you need a party/following fillers(enjoy followbots GGG) Non overpowered builds need over 200 hits to kill a defensive regen mob. It requires 6-8 times more timeinvestment to find a single map in merciless compared to closed beta. A MMO player certainly won't flinch on those changes. An Action RPG player gets pissed. Now imagine an common player gets a map/value item and somebody steals it because his path gets blocked via Frostwall. Then he has to go offline. Result nothing found and he becomes pissed. He posts reactional post what he doesn't like and somebody like you even provokes him with such an answer. How big is the chance that he leaves? " - reduce damage output of mobs by about 50% - increase mob health by about 100% - increase unique and rare mob health by another 25% - reduce ranged aoe damage slightly - leave ranged single target damage alone - buff melee aoe damage slightly - buff melee single target damage massively (like 50% or more). You like MMO, don't you? The thing mobs don't need is more life. They need less life and they have to be more dangerous. The reason you die is because your flasks don't refill because of high mob HP. Str nodes need to add a reduction multiplier, so instead of 40% you end up with 65%. Granites should grant % Reduction instead of defense. This is far too abuseable by Dex and Int classes. Each attribute should yield life. Str 5 life 10 str Dex 3 Life 10 dex Int 2 life 10 int Str got: Multiplier, Life Damage Dex got Life, Evasion Accuracy Int got life, Mana, ES, " GGG are hesitant bring the damage down because they always want a risk of dying and they dont want facetanking in the game to be too easy Its a reason why armor is they way it is for example If you want I can give you a gem combination and a skilltree for viaable melee play but you can be sure it works but it is slow as hell. " Well they achived their goal .No one facetanks anything because every top HC player plays ranged What do you expect? Prelod: Ce Reviver, Frozen Orb, Leap/WW. It's always like that. D2 1.09: Nova Orb, Bowazon, WW barb. D2 1.10+: Hammerdin, Javazon, Blizzard/Meteor sorc(There are some more which require skillers like stormer druids but they aren't that efficient without good items) If you want most experience you use simple builds everybody can use. Imagine there would be a race with predefined skills and gems. Many racers would fail really hard.	Postado por Hilbert#4232 em 23 de mar. de 2013 05:57:11 Citar este Post
Initially, I wanted to post a stand-alone topic regarding Endurance charges and Enduring Cry but I decided this topic is now gathering lots of good input and attention so I post it here instead. Spoiler Playing melee class in Path of Exile can be frustrating and unrewarding experience at times. It is possible to build functional melee character but the amount of chores connected with such endeavor is way too high in my opinion. I would like to focus on one of the more annoying requirements that are placed in front of melee character/player in order to succeed: managing Endurance charges. The way Endurance charges interact with other means of mitigation, and overall lack of other solid mitigation means in PoE, Endurance charges are simply required in order to survive in this game as a melee character taking hits regularly. The fact that there are only 2 ways to generate Endurance charges, one limited by CD and the other requiring to kill monster with a chance to obtain a charge, is very limiting to playstyle. Adding to the hassle of acquiring Endurance charges, they also have limited duration, which is rather short as well. There are other classes that utilize charges, Frenzy or Power, however, the major difference is that those other 2 mentioned charge types are used for offense and offense only. Endurance charges on the other hand play pivotal role in melee's ability to survive in melee combat for even shortest of time. Not having Endurance charges up means every melee character is in permanent threat of dieing. Main culprit of this situation is in my opinion Enduring Cry. This skill is dysfunctional and unintuitive in its use and purpose. Cooldown prevents quick acquisition of Endurance charges. The wording of the skill is catastrophic--I admit that after playing PoE for several months I still do not understand it. Finally, the fact you can only acquire Endurance charge by using Enduring Cry in vicinity of monsters is the final insult. My suggestions to change Enduring Cry are following: 1. Add additional functionality to Enduring Cry that would allow acquisition of full stack of endurance charges on a prolonged internal cooldown. This should only activate whenever player has zero Endurance Charges and could have 45 to 60 seconds internal cooldown--internal cooldown would not impact standard 4 second cast cooldown. 2. Change Enduring Cry to a passive buff similar to Bloodrage and still maintain its original functionality of acquiring Endurance Charges. The buff should refresh Endurance Charges timer whenever player is hit by melee/AOE ability. Side benefit would be that such buff could be modified by support gems and passive talents to last longer--not the charges themselves. 3. Additionally to one of the above changes, I would love to see duration of Endurance charges to be increased. I base this on the fact that while there are other types of charges, only Endurance charges are required by melee characters to keep at all times. The rest is just reduction to damage output of impacted character without any harsher repercussions.	Postado por Baron01#3047 em 23 de mar. de 2013 06:11:43 Citar este Post
" Hilbert escreveu: You like MMO, don't you? The thing mobs don't need is more life. They need less life and they have to be more dangerous. The reason you die is because your flasks don't refill because of high mob HP. What does the game type have to do with mob HP? In my example, mob damage output per encounter would be roughly the same (half damage over double the time) and flask charge generation would be exactly the same (same number of mobs). Since player HP would not drop as quickly as currently, dropping mobs as quickly would not be needed. " Each attribute should yield life. Str 5 life 10 str Dex 3 Life 10 dex Int 2 life 10 int You cannot do something like that in a vacuum. This would change the relative worth of attributes majorly and break a clean concept (every main stat gives 2 secondary stats) while at it. If you want to make Str and Life nodes less mandatory, then up the base health (level 0 and per level and perhaps even that on items and flat +hp nodes) a bit and reduce the percentage health nodes. But that is a point that is mostly unrelated to the melee vs ranged and damage spikyness issue. " If you want most experience you use simple builds everybody can use. Imagine there would be a race with predefined skills and gems. Many racers would fail really hard. For one, such a race could be pretty fun. Second, the entire point of balancing a game is to make as many game elements viable in as broad of a gameplay spectrum as possible. If that is not the point in your eyes, you are in the wrong place. Última edição por Stormfox#3549 em 23 de mar. de 2013 06:16:35	Postado por Stormfox#3549 em 23 de mar. de 2013 06:15:35 Citar este Post
" dark_madmax escreveu: " deteego escreveu: GGG are hesitant bring the damage down because they always want a risk of dying and they dont want facetanking in the game to be too easy Its a reason why armor is they way it is for example Well they achived their goal .No one facetanks anything because every top HC player plays ranged I think its not that GGG wants to make factanking impossible, just that you need to commit to it in your build Which is a fine proposition, but by the same token you cant just scale health and damage. Other aRGPS can get away with it because they have flat DR, that isn't the case with PoE	Postado por deteego#6606 em 23 de mar. de 2013 06:51:32 Citar este Post