Comprehensive feedback

First you say it's flat, then you say that flat is something different. Wat.

I think obviously what Moo means is to get rid of the stupid armor malus vs. high damage attacks.

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rephikul escreveu:

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Moosifer escreveu:

You gotta first flatten the armor curve

Nitpicking: It's god damned flat. You take 1 less damage from every 20-15 armour against monsters around your level, depending on the strength of the initial hits so if you have 20k armour almost everything hit for 1k-1.3k less. What you are asking for is making armour working with percentage as advertised (and lied) by the character screen. And that's percentage scaling, not flat. Flat means direct trade, like 20 armour for 1 damage reduction.

Everything you said is not true. Armor is based off incoming damaging, the level adjustment is just with the assumption that higher lvl mobs do higher damage so your average stat sheet DR will adjust accordingly.

reduction = armour / (armour + 12*damage)

So basically low damage hits do nothing while you eat the full damage of high damage hits. If the middle ground was a little less spikey, and you could get some/any DR on high damage hits, people wouldn't feel the need to stack life so high.

You can do this by giving bigger % armor bonuses from tree nodes, bumping 30% ones to 50%. Giving more of them as well.

Giving ways to jack up end DR. So whatever the reduction output is from above, give ways to make it higher either by % increase or flat DR. Kinda similar to how mara's reduced damage from crits works.

Lower the multiplier. My issue with this is there's no way to link this to melee or a certain class so we are left with melee/ranged being equal in EHP still

Then of course there's through skills, like every enemy you kill with this skill gives you 1% DR that stacks to whatever and lasts however long.

There's many options but something just needs to happen.

Furthermore, there is a significant difference between "flattening the scale" and "using a flat scale." The former is to compress the extremes such that they are not so... extreme. The latter is to use a linear progression of returns. Nobody is discussing that.

Fake edit: Moos could have also been referring to the lack of carbonation in the armour formula.

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Suzumiyaharuhi escreveu:

Which pretty much negates your statement. No, you ARE a melee summoner. DEAL WITH IT.

So everyone who uses zombies, skeles, and rejuv totems are melee summoners?
Wow I didn't know nearly the entire population of PoE were summoners.
You really can't be considered a "summoner" unless the majority of your dps comes from summons.[/quote]

Yeah pretty much. Even if majority of your DPS does not come from summoner all your tanking is in summons. You are primarily a summoner. Which does work with melee, but it frankly works even better with range lol

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Moosifer escreveu:

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rephikul escreveu:

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Moosifer escreveu:

You gotta first flatten the armor curve

Nitpicking: It's god damned flat. You take 1 less damage from every 20-15 armour against monsters around your level, depending on the strength of the initial hits so if you have 20k armour almost everything hit for 1k-1.3k less. What you are asking for is making armour working with percentage as advertised (and lied) by the character screen. And that's percentage scaling, not flat. Flat means direct trade, like 20 armour for 1 damage reduction.

Everything you said is not true. Armor is based off incoming damaging, the level adjustment is just with the assumption that higher lvl mobs do higher damage so your average stat sheet DR will adjust accordingly.

reduction = armour / (armour + 12*damage)

Have you ever tried converting this into numbers? Here, lemme help:

You have 12k armour, and piety smack you for 2k

damage mitigated = 2000*12000/(12000 + 12*2000) = 667 damage, 1 negated for every 18 armour

Same armour and vaal smack you for 8k

damage mitigated = 8000*12000/(12000 + 12*8000) = 889 damage, 1 negated for every 13.5 armour. Obviously a reduction better then the norm since the damage isnt meant to be tanked to begin with.

You beef up your armour to 24000 then goes back:

Piety:
damage mitigated = 2000*24000/(24000 + 12*2000) = 1000 damage, 1 negated for every 24 armour. Wha, probably you shouldnt bother with piety now.

Vaal
damage mitigated = 8000*24000/(24000 + 12*8000) = 1600 damage, 1 negated for every 15 armour. Still pretty hard for your level, but it should fall into the tankable zone now, taking into account everything else not shown with just armour.

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rephikul escreveu:

Have you ever tried converting this into numbers? Here, lemme help:

You have 12k armour, and piety smack you for 2k

damage mitigated = 2000*12000/(12000 + 12*2000) = 667 damage, 1 negated for every 18 armour

Same armour and vaal smack you for 8k

damage mitigated = 8000*12000/(12000 + 12*8000) = 889 damage, 1 negated for every 13.5 armour. Obviously a reduction better then the norm since the damage isnt meant to be tanked to begin with.

You beef up your armour to 24000 then goes back:

Piety:
damage mitigated = 2000*24000/(24000 + 12*2000) = 1000 damage, 1 negated for every 24 armour. Wha, probably you shouldnt bother with piety now.

Vaal
damage mitigated = 8000*24000/(24000 + 12*8000) = 1600 damage, 1 negated for every 15 armour. Still pretty hard for your level, but it should fall into the tankable zone now, taking into account everything else not shown with just armour.

How is this flat though, double your armor against peity gave you 67% more reduction and against vaal only 55%. Doubling your armor is a huge investment unless you are just using granite flasks, which are a bandaid for this very problem.

2k armor from chest, 1k from helm, 500 from gloves, 500 from boots and hell 2k from a shield, you need 400% armor to reach 24k armor. With this huge investment and because you are left taking so much damage you still need life on top.

The formula might be linear but the difference between what you need to mitigate small damage and the highest damage is a massive difference.

I'd like to see that gap "flatten" so people are required to get less life to deal with shit like Vaal.

armor is fine imo. More powerfull armor = Less effective physical builds. If armor gets buffed it would destroy my build basically

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sanleon escreveu:

armor is fine imo. More powerfull armor = Less effective physical builds. If armor gets buffed it would destroy my build basically

If you buff the formula correct, which I actually think is a bad idea. If you put ways of buffing it through passives, specifically for melee builds, I don't think it would hurt physical builds in PVE.

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Moosifer escreveu:

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sanleon escreveu:

armor is fine imo. More powerfull armor = Less effective physical builds. If armor gets buffed it would destroy my build basically

If you buff the formula correct, which I actually think is a bad idea. If you put ways of buffing it through passives, specifically for melee builds, I don't think it would hurt physical builds in PVE.

yup, it would only affect players, so your power siphon will still be good leon.

Why wouldn't it? I assume the enemies use the same formula. It's why when EK crits, its a beast.