Necropolis is the 2nd the worst retention League of all time: GGG can't understand their limits

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BlackMarshes212 escreveu:

"tis but a scratch"

No point in having a conversation about subjective and fluid words like "manipulation","doesn't necessarily", "can distort" etc.
It's just a waste of time.

But if you can't understand that popularity matters for the health of the game, then you simply have no argument for a forum.

This league was great for my playstyle - kill all Uber bosses, get a mirror, finish all content in 1 week and quit. Would PoE even exist if everyone played like that? No.

I can understand that what's fun for me, might not be fun for everyone else. You though, can't.

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Sure_K4y escreveu:

1. It's actually all really simple. If you disagree with the premise of this thread, because you are able to pull some statistics that you would hope contradict said premise, good for you.

2. Unfortunately, you still haven't been able to explain how this -- contrary to supposedly popular belief -- actually and "literally good" league has such a problem with player retention.

3. And let's get this straight: Nobody claimed that the league wasn't doing "anything good" for one reason another. What's being brought forth here is the argument that player retention is looking poorly - not because of all the good stuff, but in spite thereof.

4. As an aside, the vast, vast majority of programmers happen to be "fluent" in statistics. With hundreds of people in GGG's HQ, chances are they happen to have several dozen in their employ, who just might be educated enough to get a good chuckle out of this here thread.

Thank you for your reply. It's the first insightful reply I've seen yet. Thoughtful, to the point.

1. You don't need to pull anything, it's all there visible for anyone that wants to look. You actually have to fake data to make the premise (title) true.

2. This "retention problem" might not be a problem at all. We speak as IF games can hold the entirety of the player-pop for 91 days. Frankly, that's delusional.

The top players reach maps within hours, the good players within the first dozen hours, the okay players within the day... so on and so forth. By the first week some people have had multiple characters to their league.

What about burn-out? I've sure as hell burnt out on PoE before.

What about not liking the mechanic? Some players if they don't see something that's actually new they will quit. Rehashed content is a big turn off for some players.

Honestly, this list of factors is almost endless. Therefore, it is a popular misconception that you can retain players with a better league. The reasons why a player leaves the game are too many. A survey would be the best tool to ACTUALLY know why they left, but it would be annoying as hell to fill up.

3. True the argument is not that the league isn't doing something good for the player. It's much more sinister. It's saying "people are leaving because this league is trash, you are dumb to stay". It's like that annoying kid that always puts people down just to control their energy. That's harmful to player retention. You see? by creating misinformation you literally generate the problem of losing players. It DEMOTIVATES.

4. Sure, most programmers can read a chart... but, what about human behavior training? After all, that's the issue. "Player retention is going down, league = bad". That's literally a behavior that's best analyzed by someone with formal training and experience. I say a doctor because quite frankly the vast majority of countries do their best to train these professionals the best they are able to. Even a mediocre m.d, can easily dispel this deeply rooted misconception. So... if any GGG employee thinks I'm taking a shot AT them, rest assured. It's not the case. I'm merely pointing out ideal and easy third party picks.

Again... great reply and very insightful. Tyvm!

Cheers!

Person is keeping a spreadsheet of who has what position but doesn't seem to agree with themself... I'm so effin' confused...

"point: opposing argument is flawed due to statistical manipulation"
okay so far

"my response = agreed"
my in this context = the person posting the spreadsheet (Blackmarshes)

but also

"Blackmarshes = no"

seeming to indicate disagreement? Surely not? SO whats the No signify? Or whats up?

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Kiss_Me_Quick escreveu:

Spoiler

No point in having a conversation about subjective and fluid words like "manipulation","doesn't necessarily", "can distort" etc. It's just a waste of time.

But if you can't understand that popularity matters for the health of the game, then you simply have no argument for a forum.

This league was great for my playstyle - kill all Uber bosses, get a mirror, finish all content in 1 week and quit. Would PoE even exist if everyone played like that? No.

I can understand that what's fun for me, might not be fun for everyone else. You though, can't.

Huh? When did I ever say popularity does not matter? I can't understand different play-styles? huh?

Think you are talking about someone else.

Feel free to quote me and present the link.

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BlackMarshes212 escreveu:

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alhazred70 escreveu:

Spoiler

oh boy more spamming of the same graphs. This begins to have the distinct feel of someone who thinks that insistently repeating the same thing = being correct.

Its extremely ironic that you talk about being able to read graphs when you just posted (and re-posted) one that pretty nearly proves the opposing argument correct. Your yellow plot line and the Necropolis plot line nearly meet on day 25-26

I just can't... talk about hoisting on your own petard.

Yeah, taking away all the "noise" and ignoring the straight line that goes from day 7 to day 51. Sure, it nearly met on day 25-26.

By the way the fake and imaginary neon-green (https://www.color-hex.com/color/abe41b) line I made to illustrate how bad the topic and misinformation are is quite literally an alternate color for Necropolis. In short, blue and neon-green lines are the same.

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Edit: Just to be clear... blue and neon-green lines are the same. They would never intersect because they can't exist at the same time. It's one or the other. The fake green line is there to highlight the error in the topic / logic / post.

Try scrolling down and seeing the percentage of players remaining.... its 3rd worst by that metric at this time. This is like saying there was a record number of sneezes every year... well yeah there are more people on the planet. But how many sneezes per 100,000 people were there? That is a far more relevant statistic.

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Moregaze escreveu:

Try scrolling down and seeing the percentage of players remaining.... its 3rd worst by that metric at this time. This is like saying there was a record number of sneezes every year... well yeah there are more people on the planet. But how many sneezes per 100,000 people were there? That is a far more relevant statistic.

Yes absolute versus relative difference.

This BTW is also why comparing week 1 Necro to the absolute week 1 numbers of every other POE league paints it in a flattering light. Yes of course lots of older POE leagues had a smaller audience.

Its also why they chose week 1 instead of week 4.

This is also how big pharma makes their drugs look more effective vs placebo in marketing and to under-educated FDA officials and Doctors, or politicians make the economy worse or better as they desire and all manner of other ways to change how you compare things to support a desired bias.

Just choose the book cooking method that produces the more impressive number.

BTW Mageblood is TWO AND A HALF TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DROP GUYS... LOGIN LOL.

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Moregaze escreveu:

Try scrolling down and seeing the percentage of players remaining.... its 3rd worst by that metric at this time.

This is like saying there was a record number of sneezes every year... well yeah there are more people on the planet. But how many sneezes per 100,000 people were there? That is a far more relevant statistic.

Sure thing, let's do it for "Current Concurrent Players / Day 1 Concurrent Players" "at this time" o.o





Yes, I see it. It's the 3rd lowest in both cases (8 or 35 leagues).


Agreed. Says nothing other than the number of concurrent players at that point in time.

Anyone saying that concurrent players means anything else OTHER than concurrent players is literally fabricating lies. Unless, that person can manifest a secret survey I haven't heard about that's been going on for the past 10 years.

GGG should issue an apology and pay everyone for having to deal with this league.

This is UNEXCUSABLE.

Full stop.

This is an embarrassment.

Absolute joke of a league. I would think of better league in 2 sec than this Necro crap.

Not to mention you have 10 full stash tabs full of coffins you don't wanna even interact with. So you can guess why they don't give league stash tab for coffins, guess why are they not stackable, guess why coffins take 2 place instead of 1, literally greed on another level. Up until now GGG was high in my eyes, but this league made me realize not even them are trustworthy.

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TizeNO escreveu:

Absolute joke of a league. I would think of better league in 2 sec than this Necro crap.

You got the floor! Pitch your idea