Crit Multiplier + Diamond Flask (still) too powerful

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lethal_papercut escreveu:

IMO the problem isn't the flasks themselves but the fact that you can have 5 in your belt & effectively 100% up time. Make it 1 max of each special flask in your belt & the problem is solved without damaging anything but 5flask builds. Too much sense?

I don't use hp or mana flasks. So, this idea is a flat out no go.

I'm sorry, I forgot we are balancing the game around what you use...

If you don't use mana or hp flasks you can use a diamond, a granite & 3 res flasks.

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lethal_papercut escreveu:

I'm sorry, I forgot we are balancing the game around what you use...

If you don't use mana or hp flasks you can use a diamond, a granite & 3 res flasks.

Limitations beyond the intuitive is a rather bad idea, as it not only breaks some builds that rely on crit multi, it also doesn't really add anything to the game. Sure, it adds crit chance viability, but, on the same note, the builds using crit multi, will now simply have to pick up crit chance aswell, so it leaves the game with less then it came to the table with.

Personally, I think that a proliferation of different styles of offensively oriented flasks, (+1000% crit multi flask would be funny, if it couldn't stack with diamonds) combined with changing how diamonds work at the moment, to include a limited scaling mechanic, would be the best way to go about it.

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lethal_papercut escreveu:

I'm sorry, I forgot we are balancing the game around what you use...

If you don't use mana or hp flasks you can use a diamond, a granite & 3 res flasks.

Why would I use resist flasks?

Just add more charges and eliminate perpetual mod and be done with it.

Edit. Your suggestion also breaks RF build which uses ruby flasks.

So you really think that having 5 flasks is a better balance than having to invest points in crit chance aswell as multi? They might aswell take crit chance passives off the tree because once you got 5 diamonds up they are useless, like a RT build getting Accuracy. You really think that situation is better than people having to actually plan out a crit build & invest in both sides for it to be effective?

So what if it takes away a pure crit multi build, that build shouldn't really exist, it only exists because having 5 flasks is broken as hell. Try to look past your DPS for 5mins & think about the game in general, once OB hits & everyone realises crit multi builds with diamonds are the highest DPS then guess what...everyone is going to playing it, blasting the screen for 50k+ hits & the game will be trash. Think about what you are trying to defend here.

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lethal_papercut escreveu:

So you really think that having 5 flasks is a better balance than having to invest points in crit chance aswell as multi? They might aswell take crit chance passives off the tree because once you got 5 diamonds up they are useless, like a RT build getting Accuracy. You really think that situation is better than people having to actually plan out a crit build & invest in both sides for it to be effective?

So what if it takes away a pure crit multi build, that build shouldn't really exist, it only exists because having 5 flasks is broken as hell. Try to look past your DPS for 5mins & think about the game in general, once OB hits & everyone realises crit multi builds with diamonds are the highest DPS then guess what...everyone is going to playing it, blasting the screen for 50k+ hits & the game will be trash. Think about what you are trying to defend here.

No, I see your point, and agree, however I disagree about how you intend to fix it. Instead of arbitrarily limiting diamonds, instead make a solution that makes diamonds reward crit chance investment, such as my suggestion, or some of the others.

While I can see the case for adding in limitation on special flasks, I simply see it as an unnecessarily harsh knee-jerk reaction, that is treating the symptom of the issue, rather then the cause.

My build uses crit chance from the tree. I tend to have around 23% crit chance before the tree is even taken into account.

I do not use 5 diamonds.

Further, and I've said this before, taking away, or changing diamonds wouldn't really affect my build, as I do not rely on diamonds to be effective.

So, before you criticize my build, I suggest you learn what "my build" is. Go check out the witch forums. There's many other people using it as well now.

Finally, have you not actually read anything I've posted on the matter? You know, the ones where I've suggested changing charge rates, I've just mentioned ditching perpetual flask mods for it, as well as even agreeing that a change to what the flasks effect is.

Something like +10% base crit chance and +100% increased critical strikes would still pretty much ensure crits for builds that utilize critical strike chance, although it'd extend no viable function to builds without crit chance and I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

Example: 5% base chance to crit with 300% increased critical strikes from passives and items, yields a base 20% chance to crit per attack. Pop a diamond flask, and base crit chance is improved to 15%, with 400% increased critical strikes, yields a modified 75% chance to crit per attack during the flask's duration.

Just another angle to approach when theorizing so called fixes, I don't particularly like this one due to its limited function for noncrit builds (going from 5% crit chance to 30% for 1-2 seconds is not worth popping a flask, let alone occupying a flask slot, imo) but perhaps there's something in there to be worked with...

I'm still more inclined to just leave them as is until there's more content to be balanced around, rather than trying to cry op in a vacuum.

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pneuma escreveu:

CanHasPants, overpowered things like Diamond Flasks _do_ make other builds weaker in a roundabout way. They are a form of power creep. The highest level players are using them and saying the game isn't hard enough, and then GGG raises the global damage or life of enemies and the non-DF build suffers for it.

See SL4Y3R, someone understands what we are talking about. If the content is balanced around best builds (which are going to be used in all 1+ week races) then the rest of us who don't do those are fucked. That is why diamond flasks as they are limit builds.

Also if I get to tough zones and I took all logical passives and got best gear I could by that moment and I am still at 50% strength of diamond flask build that is just wrong.


As to the guy that said leave diamonds as they are but buff others, well buffing others means buffing passive tree, but what is stopping diamond flask users from using same buffs as well?!
After all they got extra passives they didn't put into crit chance and can use those to make themselves more powerful.

I'm pretty sure I just read "Boo hoo, your build is stronger than mine, I am now dissatisfied with how my build engages content. Nerf his build so I don't feel so weak about mine."

This line of reasoning, if listened to, will inevitably lead to the perpetual nerfing of all content, until absolutely no build is so op that it makes you feel bad about yours.