I always hear namelocking is 'bad' in PoE. Is it also 'bad' in other ARPGs ?

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Pyrollusion escreveu:

@raics
In the Lioneye's Watch Podcast they talked about this aswell. Making a change to melee and to namelock in general is a change to a fundamental part of the game. While this can be a good thing it could also backfire, people could say they hate it and the company would suffer as a result. For that reason they want to take their time with big decisions like this. 3.5 years is a pretty long time, I know but still I think this is what holds them back the most. What if they change it and its utter bullshit? This forum would burn. If I recall correctly they have something they want to change about it and 3.0 might be the time but still, you have to understand the huge risk involved.

Btw, there was a time in this game when casters were considered "bad". Look at casters now. GGG can make something good when they want to. They could make melee too, but it's maybe low on the priority list.

There's zero risk in fixing melee. It's trash now, weaker than ranged and caster for clear speed, survivability, it's rock bottom for absolutely everything. They cant fuck it up even if they tried. And even if they did, forum's wouldnt burn. Forums would go "lol", and then straight back to playing opieop Blade Vortex or Discharge.

Namelock mechanics should not be changed. The game still should have the 'clasic" melee skills. They should just remove melee splash and make it inherent an all single target melee skills (double strike, frenzy, heavy strike, dual strike, flicker strike), so they could always have an extra support gem. And then they should introduce a new support gem, that cancels the splash ability, and any other AoE, and gives 200% more damage(100% restricted to single target melee skills), similar to concetrated effect but more powerfull. Then namelocking skills, while still being at disadvantage could be the ulitmate boss killers. And have significantly more tooltip DPS than any other skill even at they semi AoE stage. It is only fair if consider their mechanical disadvantages, and the general state of melee.

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Poutsos escreveu:

Namelock mechanics should not be changed. The game still should have the 'clasic" melee skills. They should just remove melee splash and make it inherent an all single target melee skills (double strike, frenzy, heavy strike, dual strike, flicker strike), so they could always have an extra support gem. And then they should introduce a new support gem, that cancels the splash ability, and any other AoE, and gives 200% more damage(100% restricted to single target melee skills), similar to concetrated effect but more powerfull. Then namelocking skills, while still being at disadvantage could be the ulitmate boss killers. And have significantly more tooltip DPS than any other skill even at they semi AoE stage. It is only fair if consider their mechanical disadvantages, and the general state of melee.

Nah, that wouldn't work, I'd be the first one to call killing a map boss in two hits with any old build exceedingly lame and a rogue exile would die if you only looked at it the wrong way. You can't fix this problem with dps because there are situations where you can easily namelock while you normally can't.

I don't think we have to make them fully broken, splashed single target skills and hit-AoEs like Static Strike aren't inferior to straight AoEs in dps and their coverage isn't bad either these days. The problem is they're extremely annoying to use, if that got fixed I expect them to be popular (also, sticking right next to the enemy restricts your mobility and is usually the most dangerous place to be but that's another story and more of a HC problem).

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raics escreveu:

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Poutsos escreveu:

Namelock mechanics should not be changed. The game still should have the 'clasic" melee skills. They should just remove melee splash and make it inherent an all single target melee skills (double strike, frenzy, heavy strike, dual strike, flicker strike), so they could always have an extra support gem. And then they should introduce a new support gem, that cancels the splash ability, and any other AoE, and gives 200% more damage(100% restricted to single target melee skills), similar to concetrated effect but more powerfull. Then namelocking skills, while still being at disadvantage could be the ulitmate boss killers. And have significantly more tooltip DPS than any other skill even at they semi AoE stage. It is only fair if consider their mechanical disadvantages, and the general state of melee.

Nah, that wouldn't work, I'd be the first one to call killing a map boss in two hits with any old build exceedingly lame and a rogue exile would die if you only looked at it the wrong way. You can't fix this problem with dps because there are situations where you can easily namelock while you normally can't.

I don't think we have to make them fully broken, splashed single target skills and hit-AoEs like Static Strike aren't inferior to straight AoEs in dps and their coverage isn't bad either these days. The problem is they're extremely annoying to use, if that got fixed I expect them to be popular (also, sticking right next to the enemy restricts your mobility and is usually the most dangerous place to be but that's another story and more of a HC problem).

I do not think they will be broken at all. Kill speed is very important this days that everything (especially as melee), one shots you. Guardians and Shaper are rediculously tanky, and it takes ages usually to kill them, especially as melee(and especially single target) where you can just attack a couple of times and then you run around to not get one shot.

I know that their tooltip DPS is not inferior, but it is about the same, which IMO is unacceptable considering how lower their clear speed is and how much more dangerous, due to the mechanics. And the single target DPS on more AoE centered skills can be higher due to the interaction of concentrated effect with other support gems and flasks. The role of single target melee skills is to have the highest single tarket kill speed in the game bar none, something that does not happen(not even close). I mean you can even do this with a bow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPgxX_x7sFk

I know his gear is insane, but even with my loath bane and my theoritical over 500K double strike DPS, not only i could not kill him that fast, but there was no fucking way i could survive a Minotaur hit with Vulnerablity+-max+extra damage as. His bow build is not even a full DPS cenetered/glass cannon one.

Getting single target name locking skills to have significantly higher single target DPS than anything else(true DPS, not misleading tooltip indications), will give them a purpose. Also the inherent splash which will allow an extra support gem will help against rares etc. during map runs, which is still fair considering the much lower clear speed and survivability(and clunkiness).

Better not to go into crap that's truly broken, it's about native AoE skills versus namelocks, we'll pretend blade vortexes and whatnot don't exist. Sticking your ass on the frontline and investing in enough defense to survive there should also reward you with plenty of dps too but it doesn't really work that way and hell if devs know what do they want to do with all that anymore.

Anyway, the dps spread isn't that bad in melee deparment, on average, native AoEs like Reave or Ground Slam tend to have the least dps, trigger AoEs like Static or Wild Strike have the most, kinda-trigger AoEs like Molten are in the middle and splashed single targets have perks like super poison, bleed, frenzy charges and such. The differences aren't all that big, but they shouldn't be, otherwise running a 2H weapon would be way too much of an advantage with the socket system being what it is and the lack of meaningful skill restriction.

If we take a look at trigger AoEs, they have some perks and drawbacks.
+ a lot of dps
+ the ability to focus it on a target of choice by namelocking it
- the need to namelock when killing mooks
- very short range
The problem we have is that the drawback is far greater than the perk, we spend most of our time mindlessly slaughtering hordes of 1xp boars and not many mechanics in the game benefit from prioritizing targets. Since the game is unlikely to change in that department, magnet namelocking would be a good way to remove one drawback because short range is quite enough.

It doesn't look bad on paper, really, just needs some fine tuning to work as it should. However devs lately don't seem to have the time to take care even of things that are in a whole different grade of urgency so I'm not having high hopes here.

Namelocking in a fast paced game with tight packs of mobs is a PITA.

Plus you have to click randomly just to move around.

They need to remove namelocking entirely, period, end of story because it completely ruins any sort of melee viability trying to hunt and peck on a target that's running around among 20 others all spamming visual effects.

Skills should either trigger in the direction your mouse clicks in relation to the player (current spells and ranged abilities) or attack the nearest available target (for all melee range abilities) unless you actually select a target and click it whereupon the character moves (or uses a linked or otherwise available movement skill) to that target and attacks it.

Playing melee in ARPGs sucks D , unless it's BV PF then it doesn't suck that much D .

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skaterboy80 escreveu:

Playing melee in ARPGs sucks D , unless it's BV PF then it doesn't suck that much D .

Nah, playing melee is lot of fun, when you pick "correct" skill and can overcome its issues and learn workarounds for some of them. Just need bit of patience :)