I always hear namelocking is 'bad' in PoE. Is it also 'bad' in other ARPGs ?

PoE has shitty cursor detection, where environmental crap way too easily override mobs hitbox. Try fighting with a namelock skill around a strongbox, for example. That you can't interrupt an action / animation, doesn't help either.

Add huge density, where mobs constantly move back & forth, cause they cant all fit in some opening / small space.

Add a clusterfvk of effects & a very fast-paced gameplay.

Result -> playing with namelocking skills in PoE is a horrible experience.

"

grepman escreveu:

I dont really see what wasd controls would bring to the table in isometric games besides making them even more clunkier than you claim. mouse gives you so much precision while wasding through isometric with precision is much harder. think controller vs mouse

Bastion is isometric and uses twin-stick controls, top down shooters use these controls and it's not having the camera at an angle, making it isometric that will break the game. Isometric or top down games have in common that the mouse (or right stick) doesn't control the camera, it remains fixed, it's a system that feels good, that works, I don't understand why you say it would be clunkier

wasd is not perfect, it's 8 direction movement, a joystick as 360 degree movement, but using a controller you lose aiming accuracy and the ability to select a specific spot, which you can do with a mouse

regardless of whether you're using a controller or keyboard + mouse, having movement and aiming being separate offers better control in the sense that:

you can move left and aim right for example

with point and click controls you can only aim the the direction you are moving

when you lock on a target, you can only attack that one target while the mouse button is held, you can't move in another direction. It's also possible to unintentionally lock on a target when trying to move because it's the same button

Having "movement only" binded in the left mouse and a AoE skill in the right helps but it's still not good enough, not to mention you need to hold "attack in place" to not accidently move with the skill button

"

ladish escreveu:

Fucking hell was this not about wasd.

I feel like the wasd crowd are akin to a cult in their obsessive allegiance to that crappy control mechanism. The same in every single arpg forum.

the thread is about locking on target, which is a point and click problem, that why I brought up wasd controls

I want the best control possible, wasd is the best I know, if there were better I would use that instead

It depends on the game, wasd doesn't work in a RTS because you control multiple things and do not require to dodge, it doesn't work in a driving game because cars can't strafe but in arpgs not only does it work but it's better

arpgs need to stop using point and click controls because they are inferior, thats why in every arpg ever, someone who doesn't just accept things the way they are, someone who want things to improve, will complain about it

anyways, it's so pointless to talk about this, because the devs won't change it. it would require to remake the animations for everything that can move and attack. I'm just so fucking butthurt that devs make games with outdated poor controls and that arpgs are stuck in the past

man, take fucking darks souls or something and instead of having it be 3rd person, make it isometric, would it need it's controls changed to point and click? of course not. Taking a goddamn FPS, yeah a first person shooter and make the camera isometric instead, does it need target locking to fucking work, no it doesn't. Why can't diablo or PoE be like those games, why are they made differently? Don't tell me clicking loot because you shouldn't fucking click loot in the first place

ok I'm done now, for real

"

Coal48 escreveu:

"

grepman escreveu:

I dont really see what wasd controls would bring to the table in isometric games besides making them even more clunkier than you claim. mouse gives you so much precision while wasding through isometric with precision is much harder. think controller vs mouse

Spoiler

fuck I suck at writing and communication, I'm having the hardest time writing and explaining this shit

Bastion is isometric and uses twin-stick controls, top down shooters use these controls and it's not having the camera at an angle, making it isometric that will break the game. Isometric or top down games have in common that the mouse (or right stick) doesn't control the camera, it remains fixed, it's a system that feels good, that works, I don't understand why you say it would be clunkier

wasd is not perfect, it's 8 direction movement, a joystick as 360 degree movement, but using a controller you lose aiming accuracy and the ability to select a specific spot, which you can do with a mouse

regardless of whether you're using a controller or keyboard + mouse, having movement and aiming being separate offers better control in the sense that:

you can move left and aim right for example

with point and click controls you can only aim the the direction you are moving

when you lock on a target, you can only attack that one target while the mouse button is held, you can't move in another direction. It's also possible to unintentionally lock on a target when trying to move because it's the same button

Having "movement only" binded in the left mouse and a AoE skill in the right helps but it's still not good enough, not to mention you need to hold "attack in place" to not accidently move with the skill button

"

ladish escreveu:

Fucking hell was this not about wasd.

I feel like the wasd crowd are akin to a cult in their obsessive allegiance to that crappy control mechanism. The same in every single arpg forum.

the thread is about locking on target, which is a point and click problem, that why I brought up wasd controls

I want the best control possible, wasd is the best I know, if there were better I would use that instead

It depends on the game, wasd doesn't work in a RTS because you control multiple things and do not require to dodge, it doesn't work in a driving game because cars can't strafe but in arpgs not only does it work but it's better

"

arpgs need to stop using point and click controls because they are inferior, thats why in every arpg ever, someone who doesn't just accept things the way they are, someone who want things to improve, will complain about it

anyways, it's so pointless to talk about this, because the devs won't change it. it would require to remake the animations for everything that can move and attack. I'm just so fucking butthurt that devs make games with outdated poor controls and that arpgs are stuck in the past

man, take fucking darks souls or something and instead of having it be 3rd person, make it isometric, would it need it's controls changed to point and click? of course not. Taking a goddamn FPS, yeah a first person shooter and make the camera isometric instead, does it need target locking to fucking work, no it doesn't. Why can't diablo or PoE be like those games, why are they made differently? Don't tell me clicking loot because you shouldn't fucking click loot in the first place

ok I'm done now, for real

on the contrary, I think youre very good at explaining :) thanks for an in-detail explanation. unfortunately from my experience, twin-stick controls are made for controllers and dont really translate well into kb+m

you say you cant move left and shoot right. sure, maybe. but you can move exactly to the pixel you want to move to, which in poe, for example, can be the difference between life or death.

so if you employ WASD + mouse, your WASD will be your bottleneck 'retard'; ie, either you aim retardedly with WASD or you move retardedly with WASD in an isometric view (not top down)

again Im probably the last person to talk about it with, because I love point and click (especially in adventures and any CRPGs, I love my mouse, and I think there's nothing archaic or dated about CRPG controls, and that most good games were made 'in the past', which you claim arpgs are stuck in :)

Right click skills = target lock
Key bind skills = drops target focus if your cursor hovers over any loot nametags

That's really horrible, don't know why they made it like that.

Then you got another issue where for example while holding "W" (bind to "move only")
item interactions swap from hitbox to nametag. So the whole QoL potential of moving while holding one key, and at the same time using skills and looting stuff/interacting with doors and boxes, is ruined.

Makes no sense.
Aaaand... never forget: left mouse button totem/curse forced cast with disabled(WHYYYY!!?) movement.
What. The. Fuck.

"

grepman escreveu:

on the contrary, I think youre very good at explaining :) thanks for an in-detail explanation. unfortunately from my experience, twin-stick controls are made for controllers and dont really translate well into kb+m

you say you cant move left and shoot right. sure, maybe. but you can move exactly to the pixel you want to move to, which in poe, for example, can be the difference between life or death.

so if you employ WASD + mouse, your WASD will be your bottleneck 'retard'; ie, either you aim retardedly with WASD or you move retardedly with WASD in an isometric view (not top down)

again Im probably the last person to talk about it with, because I love point and click (especially in adventures and any CRPGs, I love my mouse, and I think there's nothing archaic or dated about CRPG controls, and that most good games were made 'in the past', which you claim arpgs are stuck in :)

I haven't played any crpgs (like baldur's gate, Ultima or fallout) and I understand thats where the tradition of point and click comes from, arpgs kinda evolved from them in a sense, that's why it's delicate, it's a different background of players, a different culture, since I haven't played those games, I really can't say if the controls could be improved for them

I do love the mouse as well man, shooters with a controller are terrible, I only use a controller for 2D games, final fantasy games got ported to PC and you can't even use a mouse to navigate the menus, it's crap

thanks for not taking things badly, I know I'm a asshole, I don't want to take point and click controls away from you, I just wish I could play in wasd, options are all I want

I really don't have any problems with name locking. You get used to it. It's a very "known" play style. Melee is like that in every game - almost.

What exactly is the alternative? That every melee skill gets a tiny AoE, damaging monsters very close to the player? I may be as stupid as few here, but as I see it, without name locking, there will be a lot of "air punches" that will fuck up your mana.

I know it's "in" to blame name lock for every problem melee has, but name lock isn't the main problem.

I think lots of other games cheese name locking by having the melee skills be AOE.

Can't say I'm really a fan of the non AOE melee skills in a game with a 1000 monsters per zone.

.

Namelocking in Diablo 2 pvp was fairly important as far as I can tell. It was also handy when trying to kill bosses in Uber Tristram.

Now that we are on the topic, Diablo 2 had right-click driving where you put your attack skill on right click and your character automatically attacked when something was in range. That feature would go a long way in helping melee skills. They would still have problems, but you wouldn't feel so awful when playing.