The truth about RMT and Botting

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johnKeys escreveu:

I thought we closed the CAPTCHA subject, ShaeG.

the problem is very good and relatively cheap image-processing algorithms, allow automatons to de-cypher some CAPTCHAs - so they need to become more obscure.
and more often than not, they become so obscure even a human has trouble with them, or at least finds them more than mildly annoying.

your insult to Universalis was uncalled for.
I have a Master's Degree (in Computer Science), and I have trouble with many crazy-obscure and almost unreadable CAPTCHAs. it has nothing to do with education and/or the ability to read.

bottom line is, a modern CAPTCHA can drive people crazy a lot better than it can protect against bots.

Something has to be done. If you cant see the economies of the new leagues already going to shit in BETA to be an example of how bad its going to get then I guess we all know whats going to happen..

I really think the idea of orbs becoming common would help a lot. ANd perhaps a revamp of how RNG works in crafting (It's f***ing terrible) I mean I like RNG but holy shit there's no point in trying to craft anything when you can just save and buy it and most likely spend less.

To compete is to compare yourself with someone in a ranking. There is nothing like that besides the level ranking. Top players are probably checked regularly and either don't use RMT or GGG does not dare touch them because they are streamers, popular, dedicated etc. Racing is the competition in this game and there is no RMT there. Currently you do not even see what the other guy has on him. You assume he is better, yet I assure you most RMT are just dirty casuals. It's a small margin of players. Less then 10% and something like 5% on regural basis yet I'm getting those numbers out of thin air. I played many mmos, only met 1 rmt using guy out of dunno 1k people. Sure, probably most are ashamed or scared. But if you think that really ruin the market you are wrong. I really don't want to defend them, it's just attacking them is outdated - logic based on that the games are for kids. I believe the developer should provide the service himself or destroy the one providing the service. Banning people is never a good solution to anything, only if they are a threat to other players. RMT users are no threat really. Boting guys, hackers are.

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lososthefish escreveu:

To compete is to compare yourself with someone in a ranking. There is nothing like that besides the level ranking. Top players are probably checked regularly and either don't use RMT or GGG does not dare touch them because they are streamers, popular, dedicated etc. Racing is the competition in this game and there is no RMT there. Currently you do not even see what the other guy has on him. You assume he is better, yet I assure you most RMT are just dirty casuals. It's a small margin of players. Less then 10% and something like 5% on regural basis yet I'm getting those numbers out of thin air. I played many mmos, only met 1 rmt using guy out of dunno 1k people. Sure, probably most are ashamed or scared. But if you think that really ruin the market you are wrong. I really don't want to defend them, it's just attacking them is outdated - logic based on that the games are for kids. I believe the developer should provide the service himself or destroy the one providing the service. Banning people is never a good solution to anything, only if they are a threat to other players. RMT users are no threat really. Boting guys, hackers are.

A lot of people dont give a shit about a ranking or ladders. I play competitively to do more damage or tank better than anyone I party with. Compete doesn't just include contests.

Competative
Adjective
Of, relating to, or characterized by competition.
Having or displaying a strong desire to be more successful than others: "she had a competitive streak".

When I played WoW i was in number 1 guild on Kil'Jaeden and my entire guild bought gold. I left the guild for a pvp guild and guess what... over half the people in vent talked about buying gold.


You are so wrong on the low percentage of people that buy gold/orbs/items.

But you cannot compete with somebody you know nothing about. You don't know their build or gear. How can you compare? That was the point of my post. You compare yourself to some deluded image of RMT buying over geared guy, yet you should probably compare yourself to some whitetrash babymama.

Best players in WoW did not buy gold, it was casuals again. The reason was simple - bop items were the best in this game. Gold was useless after getting enough to support potions and enchantments.

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lososthefish escreveu:

I'm not trying to prove that RMT is good god forbid. We are dealing with a problem and we are using outdated logic and wrong approach. RMT provider should be eliminated, perhaps by law or programming measures. RMT users should not be touched.

When you say not to punish a cheater, you condone the cheating.

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lososthefish escreveu:

To compete is to compare yourself with someone in a ranking. There is nothing like that besides the level ranking. Top players are probably checked regularly and either don't use RMT or GGG does not dare touch them because they are streamers, popular, dedicated etc. Racing is the competition in this game and there is no RMT there. Currently you do not even see what the other guy has on him. You assume he is better, yet I assure you most RMT are just dirty casuals. It's a small margin of players. Less then 10% and something like 5% on regural basis yet I'm getting those numbers out of thin air. I played many mmos, only met 1 rmt using guy out of dunno 1k people. Sure, probably most are ashamed or scared. But if you think that really ruin the market you are wrong. I really don't want to defend them, it's just attacking them is outdated - logic based on that the games are for kids. I believe the developer should provide the service himself or destroy the one providing the service. Banning people is never a good solution to anything, only if they are a threat to other players. RMT users are no threat really. Boting guys, hackers are.

You CANT attack the RMT sites... most are hosted in countries that have no laws against it. Or they will just make another site. The only way is to stop the demand.

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ScrotieMcB escreveu:

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lososthefish escreveu:

I'm not trying to prove that RMT is good god forbid. We are dealing with a problem and we are using outdated logic and wrong approach. RMT provider should be eliminated, perhaps by law or programming measures. RMT users should not be touched.

When you say not to punish a cheater, you condone the cheating.

You are all throwing stones with such clear conscience. You will never stop the demand with such measures. There has never been a company successful at doing it this way. The only thing they did was chase away some players. I do not condone cheating, I'm simply a realist. RMT should be in hands of GGG in form of exp/rairity/more orb scrolls, a real money shop. All those RMTs would gladly go for legal if they had a choice.

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ShaeG escreveu:

Something has to be done. If you cant see the economies of the new leagues already going to shit in BETA to be an example of how bad its going to get then I guess we all know whats going to happen..

I really think the idea of orbs becoming common would help a lot. ANd perhaps a revamp of how RNG works in crafting (It's f***ing terrible) I mean I like RNG but holy shit there's no point in trying to craft anything when you can just save and buy it and most likely spend less.

I admire your forum-zeal. it reminds me of myself a few months ago :)

but simply boosting drops isn't the solution. Undon3 had a very good thread explaining why.

GGG need to bias drop-RNG according to area level, have a "difficulty ranking" for bosses, have a way to distinguish between maps of the same level, using a mod-difficulty rank better than the current one - and bias accordingly.
there also needs to be another way to obtain orbs besides pure luck or 24/7 grind. a challenge-based way.
extremely hard feats to accomplish, with high currency as their reward.

the aim of all of the above, is to make sure a player who just completed Cruel for example, would not be poorer than someone in mid Normal (save a very-lucky few).

and there are non-trivial ways to bias crafting-RNG as well. like Courageous' proposal to keep a "track-record" of failed rolls on an item.

to keep it short and simple: players who feel their effort is worth something, would never resort to RMT, even if they did so in previous games.
players who grind endlessly to no avail, are the bread and butter of RMT.

RMT cannot be killed-off completely, because some people would keep buying no matter what - but it can be reduced substantially, by both cracking-down on the supply AND making the game fun and rewarding-for-effort.

Using RMT is not really cheating. It's breaking terms of agreement and by a long shot. The only one being cheated is the one paying real money for virtual goods. The item, orb was there. If it was given to you for free it would be the same kind of cheating. Terms of agreement are legal rules. They state that your character is not yours, items you find are not yours etc. Boting breaks ingame rules, same does hacking. The only logic behind this is - did player did a chore to earn ingame items? If no, then punish. Some guy did the chore.

The only thing wrong with RMT using is the fact, that the player did not do a chore that was required to perform before gaining a treat. Some other guy did it for them. I find using my nephew to grind docks boting, giving items for free to noobs same kind of cheating. All comes from the terms of agreement - your char is not yours, items are not yours, therefore you shall not profit from them. I knew a girl who was sleeping with guys to get items. I know that many items were traded for alcohol in rl. It's all a service - from people who can do it, to people that cannot, but are willing to trade resources. You cannot stop it. No one can, because that are the basics of society. Fighting this is silly at best. You can either provide or let others provide or somehow limit/block the need with measures that make the need for the service lessened in comparison to the threat of breaking the law.

You can ofc keep throwing rocks and bans. It will solve nothing though, only make some people miserable. That's all i have to say about the topic.