PoE --> Forum Gold

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ongZ escreveu:

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How is GGG going to fight that?

I have no idea, never did. But I am sure introducing their own forum gold would only make more people use it and damage economy even more. Also there are some people who like to play the game by its rules so if GGG asks them to not use d2jsp, they won't.

@TEBird: I wrote it somewhere, it's not about real money, it's about some external currency that can cause harm to ingame economy. Why not give those people writing guides and win some events some orbs? Why would we need this gold at all? I'm sorry for being so negative here, I just can't see anything good really. Perhaps I blinded myself when thinking of all the bad that could come with it.

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wiggin escreveu:

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ongZ escreveu:

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How is GGG going to fight that?

I have no idea, never did. But I am sure introducing their own forum gold would only make more people use it and damage economy even more. Also there are some people who like to play the game by its rules so if GGG asks them to not use d2jsp, they won't.

@TEBird: I wrote it somewhere, it's not about real money, it's about some external currency that can cause harm to ingame economy. Why not give those people writing guides and win some events some orbs? Why would we need this gold at all? I'm sorry for being so negative here, I just can't see anything good really. Perhaps I blinded myself when thinking of all the bad that could come with it.

Could you explain this "harm?"

1. you seem to take issue with people buying "PoE forum gold" - so do I. I do not think it should be sold, but rather earned. So I think we agree there.

2. "forced to use it" - I don't think so. People will still trade orbs. This just gives you more choices. I think most reasonable people really like having more not less choices.

3. The reason "just giving out" more orbs is not really good is because orbs are items that add to the net amount of elite items in the game. I.E. the more chaos orbs that exist ultimately the more godly items that exist.

Chris recently said that all the orbs added from the 2 week race was probably not good for the PoE economy. The cool thing about forum gold as a reward is it allows for LESS orbs to be paid out. This keeps game balance better. Because forum gold is fun, but has no in game functional uses. Thus doesn't cause inflation in item power inside the game...it simply gives people another currency to thinker with.

The provisions I outlined in my original post were put there for a reason.

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ongZ escreveu:

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TEBird escreveu:

You cannot directly farm forum gold. End o' story. That is why Jsp gold has a more solid currency value than 99% of games out there.

Sorry, I might be misunderstanding. You said earlier, that FG shouldn't by any means be associated with real money - you do know, that you can buy FG on jsp?

Yes. This is a distinction of jsp gold vs. PoE gold. Just because jsp has a system doesn't mean it should be copied exactly as it is...the system should be changed to not be associated with Path of Exile forum gold.

About how it could harm economy, I think I wrote it already. You are creating some outside currency people can buy power with. There are two possible scenarios: either people will use it and buy power from other players (those who can grind the gear easily already) and devaluate the price of good items and therefore ingame currency items OR people won't use it at all because nobody will actually want this FG. It is still the same thing all over again like with real money AH. You take some external source of wealth and pour it into the ingame economy. I know real world does this when governments decide to 'print more money'. The problem is that it causes real trouble in real world too. Small economy is a lot less stabile than large world economy.

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wiggin escreveu:

About how it could harm economy, I think I wrote it already. You are creating some outside currency people can buy power with. There are two possible scenarios: either people will use it and buy power from other players (those who can grind the gear easily already) and devaluate the price of good items and therefore ingame currency items OR people won't use it at all because nobody will actually want this FG. It is still the same thing all over again like with real money AH. You take some external source of wealth and pour it into the ingame economy. I know real world does this when governments decide to 'print more money'. The problem is that it causes real trouble in real world too. Small economy is a lot less stabile than large world economy.

Currency by its nature is used to buy things. Generally people want to use currency to buy things that are useful. Can you explain more directly how this is a bad thing, using currency to "buy power" is not a bad thing....unless you got that currency by spending money, then it becomes pay2win, which, I along with GGG are completely against.

There is a big difference between my proposed PoE forum gold and a real money auction house. Namely, the money part. I cannot be more emphatic, NO...ASSOCIATION...WITH...REAL...MONEY...

My system doesn't involve that...so if you want to go argue about that system please take it up in another post. The proposal of selling PoE forum gold doesn't exist here.

If you continue to argue about my system using money I'm going to become very offended. If you want to go argue about how bad a forum gold system would be that allowed players to use money to buy power go make another thread. I'll join that thread and agree with you.

But please do not twist what I have very clearly proposed as my intended system.

Thank you.

But how can I not associate it with real money. I only do that because the impact on ingame economy is similar, I believe I was quite clear on that.

Real money is a currency used to buy things, power including. If you look at it from the ingame world point of view, it doesnt matter if it was real money or virtual FG you buyed the power with, it is still some external source you used to gain ingame advantage over other people who didn't do that. I understand there is a difference between FG and real money - for real money you can work anwhere while for FG you would have to do something for the community. So yes, I do understand it is not completely same situation, just the impact on game economy is.
The bad thing is that you are creating a system where some people will (from in game point of view) gain some wealth out of thin air. But then again, there are many games with cash shop and they do well, and people play them. The inflation can be extreme, though. I'm talking about MMO, if the playerbase of PoE is not as large then the impact could be even worse.
Also if bad things happen in limited scale, nothing changes, every economy is somewhat flexible, of course. I can't tell how much would this FG affect PoE since idk how much fg would be put to market and what would people spend it on etc. The only sure thing is that it would affect it and the more the worse.

4TEBird: I'm completely honest with you, I am not trying to twist anything or prove anything. I'm just providing some feedback on your suggestion, I didn't mean to offend you in any way.

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wiggin escreveu:

But how can I not associate it with real money. I only do that because the impact on ingame economy is similar, I believe I was quite clear on that.

Real money is a currency used to buy things, power including. If you look at it from the ingame world point of view, it doesnt matter if it was real money or virtual FG you buyed the power with, it is still some external source you used to gain ingame advantage over other people who didn't do that. I understand there is a difference between FG and real money - for real money you can work anwhere while for FG you would have to do something for the community. So yes, I do understand it is not completely same situation, just the impact on game economy is.
The bad thing is that you are creating a system where some people will (from in game point of view) gain some wealth out of thin air. But then again, there are many games with cash shop and they do well, and people play them. The inflation can be extreme, though. I'm talking about MMO, if the playerbase of PoE is not as large then the impact could be even worse.
Also if bad things happen in limited scale, nothing changes, every economy is somewhat flexible, of course. I can't tell how much would this FG affect PoE since idk how much fg would be put to market and what would people spend it on etc. The only sure thing is that it would affect it and the more the worse.

4TEBird: I'm completely honest with you, I am not trying to twist anything or prove anything. I'm just providing some feedback on your suggestion, I didn't mean to offend you in any way.

You keep talking about the negative impacts to the economy of having another currency. Would you please list them clearly in number fashion.

i.e.

problem 1:

problem 2:

Because I'm not really seeing you talk about anything specific, just make some really broad generalizatios that are not true.

If a player makes top 40 in a league event and is awarded some forum gold. That is not some unfair benefit. You are supposed to get prizes from winning. if a community member makes forum posts that help educate people it is not unfair that they get a benefit from their work that helps others.

I'm dumbfounded as to how this is bad.

You keep talking like people can unfairly get power for doing nothing...that simply is not true with the system I'm talking about. Legit players who have earned the benefit get the benefit...no one else. period.


Additionally inflation will be worse without it. If all that is awarded is orbs for events it will create item power inflatio.

I.E.

If you have a lvl 62 rare item that is bad...it doesn't really impact the economy. But add 50 chaos orbs and there is a decent chance you will soon have a godly level 62 rare.

Now instead of adding 50 chaos orbs lets just award some players some forum gold....no actual power is added to the game.

My system actually creates less item/power inflation than just awarding lots of orbs.

If you see negative impacts to the economy please list them clearly in a list. I do not see you saying anything but generalizations that do not apply in my specific model.

I understand that there's currency (orbs, etc) in this game, why can't you just use that currency to trade with other players... Gold is not needed.
They could just make an AH like in w@w, using the currency of the game.

Problem 1: There would be a possibility to buy an ingame advantage for some external work. P2W principle.

Problem 2: Sooner or later, according to the amount of FG, we will get real inflation problem.

I can still see the two options what could happen, people would not use ths FG because it has no real value OR if people did use it then they would start buying power with it (and you will hate me for it but they would start buying it for real money eventually).

Edit:

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Vold316 escreveu:

I understand that there's currency (orbs, etc) in this game, why can't you just use that currency to trade with other players... Gold is not needed.
They could just make an AH like in w@w, using the currency of the game.

You can.

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wiggin escreveu:

Problem 1: There would be a possibility to buy an ingame advantage for some external work. P2W principle.

Problem 2: Sooner or later, according to the amount of FG, we will get real inflation problem.

I can still see the two options what could happen, people would not use ths FG because it has no real value OR if people did use it then they would start buying power with it (and you will hate me for it but they would start buying it for real money eventually).

Edit:

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Vold316 escreveu:

I understand that there's currency (orbs, etc) in this game, why can't you just use that currency to trade with other players... Gold is not needed.
They could just make an AH like in w@w, using the currency of the game.

You can.

1. Pay-to-win means: You pay cash = you get advantage in game = not cool.

Actually playing and owning events. Doing research and posting useful information isn't pay to win that is work to win. No one has a problem with this. You seriously have a problem with players who work hard and win leagues getting rewarded for that? Please don't call that pay to win its not.

You have a problem with someone spending hours developing a guide on how to level a spellcaster shadow that the community really likes getting something back for his efforts? Please don't call that pay to win. It is not.

Legit players working and getting rewarded is not "pay2win" because they didn't pay anything...they worked hard, they earned a prize...they can spend it on a fancy sig or a cool visual feature in a post or whatever forum cosmetics they want.

If other players who ALSO worked to find items want to trade for forum gold that is two players trading with things they EARNED, not PAID FOR... (no real money involved)

2. Inflation is the process of a particular currency becoming less valuable generally due to the large amounts of currency in circulation. The creation of a currency does not = inflation.


Additionally, not that this has anything to do with anything, but inflation is not always a bad thing it depends on context: What kind of inflation, what caused it, what effect is it having, etc. etc.

You can't just be like, "OMG A NEW CURRENCY IT MEANS INFLATION OMG!" that doesn't make any sense. Throwing economic terms around just for the fun of it?


Are you assuming that there will be too much forum gold in circulation? (inflation within forum gold?) This is not necessarily the case. All they have to do is produce small amounts. Due to the nature of forum gold this is actually possible unlike in game gold, because on a forum you can control how much is distributed.

Are you talking about items in the game? The irony here is by paying out forum gold and less orbs there would actually be less power inflation in terms of items.


I'm not sure what your theory is here or even what you mean.

P2W: You can pay with many things, it doesn't really have to be cash. You pay with something outside the game to get power inside the game. Sometimes the time you put to get this outside source of power is represented by cash and goes directly to the company. The situation inside the game doesn't change in any way if you pay with 'your time'. It is still the same.

Edit: (there was some wall of text but lets keep it simple)
There would be another currency beside orbs. It would keep coming to the market from events. If people used this to buy orbs and then after event more FG appeared...

Anyway, I think I wrote just enough. Peace.