A cornerstone of ARPGs is replay value
" nGio gives history lessons! Apparently, disagreeing mildly with someone on a forum is exactly like the industrial murder of millions. When having to pick between two sides on a gaming issue, one side being impolite, while the other is screaming about Hitler, it's pretty easy to take a side. Ie, the side that isn't screaming about everyone disagreeing with them being someone Hitler would be proud of. /newbie opinion, feel free to dismiss and/or call me the new Eva. |
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The reason that replayability for PoE is sometimes seen as not as high as Diablo 2 is simply because of other viable alternatives out there. I played D2 for 5-6 years on and off, b/c everything else I tried at the time was inferior to that game. Nowadays you can go download 30 interesting F2P games at any given time.
If new games were coming out every month and there were 50 free ones I could just DL and start playing while D2 was out I would have taken many more breaks from it. IMO this game has far more replayability than ANY ARPG that I have ever played mainly b/c of the massive skill tree and my fondness of creating many alts. That would not be the case for you if you are a person that likes to play one character to 100 and completely max out on gear, those kind of people are simply better suited for MMO's. Oh and please don't compare this game to D3, I stopped playing D3 b/c every player has EXACTLY the same skills and EXACTLY the same build options as every other player of that class and there is NO WAY to diversify your character other than gear, which in most cases top tier gear is nearly the same for all of the 3 viable builds (if that) per class. One last thing: I hope they revamp PvP in PoE b/c that is what really made me enjoy D2, and just another reason D3 fell far short of my expectations. |
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" Lol what's that theory that the longer an internet debate goes on the higher the likely hood that Hitler will come up? Googled it - Godwin's Law =P |
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" Disagreeing mildly and "if you don't think what I think then get the fuck out of my face" are completely different things. Hitler's IDEALS were exactly this, which is what I was referencing. Hitler got voted into power on his promises, and became a dictator on his ideals, before he became a complete genociding psychopath. You're the one that focused on the extreme, while I was merely referencing similar ideological views, which was pretty clear in the context. |
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Some players just played because they saw the gem/socketing system, thought it was cool, and wanted to try out different combinations.
Some players just played because they saw the skilldrassil, thought it was cool, and wanted to try out different trees. Some players just played because they thought, "Hey, I like playing around with different mechanics, what happens if Unique X and Y was combined with Passive Z and Skill A linked to Support B and C?", and gave PoE a shot. With the way build-enabler (yes, that's a bad thing, disabling entire builds just because you don't have Build Enabler unique that costs thirty mirrors) uniques are gated around very, very high level content, these kinds of players stick around only for a few months or so, then leave. What I suggest is that: Increase the number of build enablers, but reduce the number of build boosters. To give you an idea of the difference between a "build enabler" and a "build booster", let's take two different items that either enable or boost a build: A High ES (700+) 5 Link Chest, and Auxium. The High ES (700+) 5 Link Chest is a build enabler. It's something that allows a player to build around Chaos Inoculation. Simplified, this is something that is critical to a build, something that, without it, the build cannot feasibly run through 95% of available content. The Auxium is a Build Booster. It's nice for CI characters and definitely provides a boost to people who play them, but having an Auxium alone does not enable CI builds. You still need the build enabler for CI to play a CI character. The current issue with the game is that people perceive that the drop rate of build enablers, things that allow you to experiment and have fun, is a tad too low. Thus, you're forced to stick to Flavor-Of-The-Patch builds, or to "El Cheapo" builds because, well, your budget is "El Cheapo". See a cast on crit character firing off 5 Discharges per second? Want to have a taste of just a smidgen of that Cast on Crit build, knowing that you can't exactly beat the top 3 person on ladder doing that, but you want to at least come close to it? Too bad, you don't have Volls/CritDagger/Resists/Romira's/Pretty Much Anything That Build Needs To Start Off. You're stuck with your forever farming Infernal Blow/Ground Strike/Split Arrow farmer, hoping against hope that that one unique that you need, whether it be Bringer of Rain, or Voll's Protector, or Alpha's, or Rise of the Phoenix, drops. Additionally, the "cool" content is gated too high. Wanna see if your Cold Snap spammer using the new Ring can reliably farm Dominus? Wanna test if a heavily buffed Animate Guardian can stand against Shock and Horror? Too bad, your theorycrafted builds won't get to see the light of day, not because they suck, but because you lack the levels (and passive points) to get to your build's required point. Three or four theorycrafted builds that fail due to high gated content later, and the player leaves. Última edição por Sachiru#1510 em 10 de jan. de 2014 10:16:04
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" I have a CI witch that is running lvl 74 maps solo that wears a 300 ES 4 link chest. I had no idea that my build wasn't enabled yet!! TL;DR? The Idea that builds are gated behind items (other than RF I guess) is wrong. All items are build enhancing. I've also heard RF can be done with high level purity + aura and buff nodes though. |
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" What nonsense. Almost every build enabling unique in this game is well within people's budgets anyway. Voll's is 1 chaos or less. Searing touches can be had for 10-15 chaos. Rats nest and maligaros are less than 1 ex. I've seen many, many great crit daggers for 15 chaos or less. Heck, even high level map only uniques like rathpith are less than an ex now. There's hardly any true build enabling uniques out there above 10ex except for Shav's and Soul Taker, and personally Soul Taker is not a build enabler but a build booster anyway. So there's ONE, yes one, true build enabling unique that is actually gated. And people still complain despite every other build enabler basically being considered a 'trash unique' which can be bought for hardly anything. Sigh. Oh and the idea that a 700 ES chest is a build enabler for CI is hilarious. You can run (and I have run) up to 75 maps with 350 ES, and I used to run 78 maps with 450 ES, that too as a melee CI character. Heck, many people do fine using carcass jacks and they're only about 200 ES! Again: your post is full of misinformation and nonsense. |
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You guys must be on a SC league, because if you bring that low ES test build shit into HC you'll get stuffed harder than a 5 foot white guy driving the lane.
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OK, gettting back on subject.
GGG has to be very careful with the difficulty factor in PoE lest they make the same mistake that Blizzard did with D3. The main problem with any arpg is that if the devs make the leveling curve too steep such that only a few builds are viable and sustainable for the high levels and maps, then millions of builds that we theory craft are never tried. If we are pretty sure that a new build won't work in Merciless or maps then what's the point of making it? I'm sure a few try unusual cool builds but because GGG decided that PoE needs to be the uber hard arpg that it is and thus most builds won't work at high levels, we have lost replay value right there. D3 history 101 D3 came out in the middle of May, by the end of June most were playing whirlwind leap slammer barbarian as that was the best build for Inferno. Blizzard saw the build statistics and then made the horrific mistake of nerfing things right and left in an attempt to get build diversity and made a terrible mess so by the end of July the flame wars were going strong on their forums. Why? Because they made Inferno damn near impossible to play for millions. The uber elitist players got through and killed Inferno Diablo but millions of others were left frustrated, angry, and cheated by Blizzard. By the time patch 1.06 came in August to allow progress in Inferno millions had already quit. GGG has to be careful not to fall into the same trap. If the goal of GGG is to keep us from progressing to level 100 within the life span of PoE then they have done a great job. If GGG wants an arpg that we grind, grind, and then grind some more and eventually lose interest and quit then PoE 1.05 is perfect. If their goal is to have an arpg that satisfies the uber arpg player clammering for ever harder content then they have a winner in PoE. But for millions of arpg players (myself included), we want tough battles (few want a wimpy faceroll everything arpg) and all, but that needs to be tempered with a level progression that is more linear and doesn't cause our characters to grind to a halt somewhere in the 70s or 80s. We want an arpg that allows us to be able to play good builds to the end game maps and not have to have the near perfect build to get there. Let's look at this another way. With millions of build possibilities in PoE there are going to be at least 3/4ths of builds that are throw away crap. That's just common to all arpgs. Then there are the good builds that get you through Cruel (just about any build good or bad is ok for Normal) and then fail somewhere in Merciless. Then we have the great builds that faceroll Normal and Cruel, cruise through most of Merciless (Dominus is one tough bastard), and even work for the lower endgame maps. Finally we have the top uber builds that faceroll most content and do very well in the end game maps. Where GGG sets the difficulty bar has a lot to do with what builds we try to play. If we can only get great and uber builds to the endgame maps then build diversity is limited and all the good builds will be discarded unless you like playing only through Cruel level of difficulty and stopping there. For PoE to really be a huge success with re-playability and build diversity GGG has to set the PoE difficulty bar so that the good builds that are fun in theory need to be usable. If that means that the uber elitist is upset that GGG is making PoE too easy then GGG will need to expand the permanent leagues by 2 (4 counting HC and Normal), one to accommodate more build diversity, and the 2nd to be an uber hard Ironman league for the masochist wanting an uber hard challenge. GGG also needs to rethink their strategy on the end play (level 68 to 100). Right now GGG has PoE exponentially more time consuming to grind XP to level up. This keeps us from getting to level 100 too fast and being bummed out with that but I don't see that as a problem but as another storyline element that needs to be leveraged. GGG needs to use the whole story of being exiled to Wraeclast as a punishment for crimes committed and use the 100 level cap as a goal to be reached to get pardoned and allowed to leave Wraeclast as a free person. If we can play our characters up to level 100 and then get pardoned for our crimes and get a great conclusion to all the grinding to get to level 100, complete with a cinematic ending like D3 has, then the incentive to keep on playing and grinding XP will be worth it. A great level 100 goal is needed. When we get our character pardoned and leave Wraeclast that build will be retired and place on the pardoned exile scroll with all the stats viewable to all. Then there will be a big currency reward given (100 fusings + 100 jewellers or something really rare but immediately usable) which will be placed in our stash along with our current inventory gear (as a new read-only tab). Finally, that character is permanently retired and no longer playable (similar to what TorchLight has). We take our great reward and start over with a new build. Getting to level 100 should not be seen as a rare once in a blue moon achievement but as a more common and easier to reach goal with less grinding at the top 32 levels. PoE has many great possibilities for the endgame to be much better and more fun than it currently is now and GGG should make some sweeping changes soon to re-invigorate the loyal but tiring (and grind exhausted) PoE fans before the player base collapses from fatigue and burnout. "You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..." Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration. The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat: www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070 Última edição por Arrowneous#3097 em 10 de jan. de 2014 13:22:15
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To the guy above: it is clear that you just haven't experienced/tried high level maps with different builds yourself.
I run 76/77/78 maps only nowadays, often with top 50 ladder players. The build diversity is profound. I literally cannot think of a time when two identical builds have been in one of my parties. Even builds that appear the same are often radically different: melee marauders/duellists I run with have such different equipment and passive node priorities that they are essentially totally different builds. It's also notable how bad the gear of some of these guys are. A level 92 I run with uses a 230pdps one hander - in other words, he uses a main weapon worth about 15 chaos. He runs 78s all day though and almost never dies (as is required when grinding post level 90). People on these forums live in a fantasy about the 'über gear without which I can't do maps yo', and it's just that: a fantasy. |
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