I always hear namelocking is 'bad' in PoE. Is it also 'bad' in other ARPGs ?
Spoiler
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grepman escreveu:
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Cataca escreveu:
Dont be ridiculous please. My point was, that even in an FPS you can shoot while heaving nothing in your crosshair. And let us not forget, that between using a skill, and making the animation to hit, time passes. Say - a mob moves in a direction, you point your mouse in front of it, skill initiates - hits target. Does not work in PoE. You have to target a mob *precisely* but said mob doesnt stand still. It happens more often than not that you will hit the mob you targeted with only your melee splash, because the system is ass.
where am I being ridiculous ?
lets take FPS targeting. lets say you have a melee sword, yeah ? lets say it takes .5 seconds to perform a cool move. you go to the mob, initiate the attack in their face, but mob moves. you miss because you hit air.
how is it different from poe ? unlike a gun or ranged attack which you can shoot like youve said 'in front' of the mob, you cant really do a melee attack in fps game in front of the mob and expect the mob to jump on it. you have to take a weapon, aim it at a mob's body part and perform the attack.
it's definitely not "You can shift click in the vicinity to always strike at the general direction"
I mean, you clearly said that if you strike in 'the general direction' (ie " I clicked a button, clearly intending to use a skill, and have my mouse pointed at the general direction of what to hit"), you expect the mob to be hit. this is autoaim at its finest.
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Dont believe me? Take out melee splash and multistrike -> Kill a pack of mobs and then tell me it was a good test of your skills. Thats like smashing your hands with a hammer, then playing PoE and claiming that despite your smashed fingers, you can still play, and its a good gauge of your skill. Its moronic.
what do you mean I dont believe you ? I know how the targeting system works. I'm trying to understand why people don't like it. sorry, bunch of epithets doesn't really explain it.
I don't consider what 'other' arpgs do in terms of animation canceling, and foolproof lax targeting any better, because they turn misses into hits and thus are no better than performing an aoe attack. clicking 'in general direction' is how people play aoe skills already.
So, you realize that unlike an FPS, where you can lead a target, this wont work in PoE (because it wont let you initialize the skill on empty ground, so the mob can "walk into it" unless you shift click)
And you also realize that in PoE, the targeting system leads to automatic misses, because mobs are, in fact, moving targets and skills take time to execute.
And, you probably also understand that most meele skills definitely employ a support that completely disregards your target and autotargets stuff anyway, two thirds of the time.
Despite that, you think that the system currently compares to actual skilful gameplay? (ie. targeting in an FPS)
I am not exactly sure if i can follow your logic here.
Última edição por Cataca#6988 em 24 de out. de 2016 04:53:57
I don't consider what 'other' arpgs do in terms of animation canceling, and foolproof lax targeting any better, because they turn misses into hits and thus are no better than performing an aoe attack. clicking 'in general direction' is how people play aoe skills already.
Just compare them side by side, splashed Heavy strike without multi in PoE versus Demonic Blow with vehemence in S2, or some autoattack build in GD or TL2. Exactly the same concept of a single target with splash damage, stinks enormously in PoE and is perfectly usable in other games.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
So, you realize that unlike an FPS, where you can lead a target, this wont work in PoE (because it wont let you initialize the skill on empty ground, so the mob can "walk into it" unless you shift click)
a gun is a RANGED tool. I just told you in FPS that utilize melee weapons, its the same thing as in PoE.
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And you also realize that in PoE, the targeting system leads to automatic misses, because mobs are, in fact, moving targets and skills take time to execute.
so ? why is it bad ? again, you want to point in the direction of the mob, and not the mob itself, but still not miss ? why ? explain, why. it doesnt make any sense to me.
your logic is basically 'if I click the mob, I need to hit the mob even if it moved away during the time I was hitting it'
this doesnt make any sense to me. if I start swinging my stick at you and you move out the way, why the FUCK should I hit you ?
I don't consider what 'other' arpgs do in terms of animation canceling, and foolproof lax targeting any better, because they turn misses into hits and thus are no better than performing an aoe attack. clicking 'in general direction' is how people play aoe skills already.
Just compare them side by side, splashed Heavy strike without multi in PoE versus Demonic Blow with vehemence in S2, or some autoattack build in GD or TL2. Exactly the same concept of a single target with splash damage, stinks enormously in PoE and is perfectly usable in other games.
what does constitute as 'stinking' ? yes you arent autoaimed and you end up missing. is that it ?
so in case of autoaim, why even have a skill that namelocks, because it will hit whatever the fuck is in the area, essentially correcting your aim. might as well call it an aoe skill, because it will hit the area regardless of your aim
Última edição por grepman#2451 em 24 de out. de 2016 12:55:27
what does constitute as 'stinking' ? yes you arent autoaimed and you end up missing. is that it ?
Just try both side by side and compare the experience, it's faster than explaining it.
who said I haven't ?
I want people to come forward and say some shit like 'I want the game to correct my aim while playing an aoe skill because I really, really hate to hit air and I want my game experience to be smoother than babys ass'. thats sad, but acceptable. saying 'targeting is moronic' is not.
its just that if thats the case, theres no distinction from AoE skills aside from naming. in one case you click a 'general area', and in the other case you click a 'general area'. there is no precision and the engine idiot-proofs you so even if you miss (lose) you still hit (win)
Última edição por grepman#2451 em 24 de out. de 2016 14:04:52
This issue usually crops up in discussion of how melee fails to compete effectively with ranged builds. If we want to bridge that gap GGG has to address the more stringent targeting requirements for melee. If you don't think melee needs any help then by all means campaign for things to stay the same, but if you understand the issue and want single-target melee to work better then I don't understand how anyone wouldn't want improvements.
this isnt a thread about improvements tho (in general, yes, melee needs improvement)
this is a thread where I try to understand why people dont like the concept of 'missing' and want for namelock to be treated like an aoe mechanic (I slam my mouse in the 'general direction' and it magically hits an enemy) when it clearly isn't intended to be one.
its just that if thats the case, theres no distinction from AoE skills aside from naming. in one case you click a 'general area', and in the other case you click a 'general area'. there is no precision and the engine idiot-proofs you so even if you miss (lose) you still hit (win)
I just prefer having two sets of similar skills that a set of skills that is used and a set that isn't.
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grepman escreveu:
this is a thread where I try to understand why people dont like the concept of 'missing' and want for namelock to be treated like an aoe mechanic (I slam my mouse in the 'general direction' and it magically hits an enemy) when it clearly isn't intended to be one.
It's no magic, it's common sense, doesn't this bother you:
- you wan to hit enemy A
- you misclick and hit thin air
Shouldn't we assume our characters are smart enough to at least aim at the enemy before trying to hit it?
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
