A cornerstone of ARPGs is replay value

Yeah good old D2 with its bots, dupes and hacks. Really miss it.

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Ludvator escreveu:

rolling new characters is key to ARPGs replayability

The problem with doing that is that gearing several builds is impossible in PoE. You'll end up with several builds, but all undergeared. It's PoE's great irony - so many nice skills to play, but you have to focus only on 1 build if you want to gear it properly.

I have several builds now, have 2 more that I wanna start, I'm thinking of playing some races too this year (never played before). But honestly, in doing all of that, I recognize that I have 0% chance to level up my builds and 0% chance of gearing them... and I dont think that's quite right. GGG have set up too many artificial obstacles.

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Zalm escreveu:

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nGio escreveu:

You can roll new characters in PoE....if you sell your 2k+ hours played main to fund an alt.

Dear "Mr.I have 25 chars at level 60 all wearing inferior gear", I'm not talking about you casual players.

If you have played this game for 2k hours and cant afford to fund up at least three more builds, your obviously not picking anything up other than 'end game uniques' when you farm.

I have 4 builds past level 75 now, all of which are capable of soloing most 70+ maps with gear found and funded from my original 80+ summoner. I have less than 2k hours in this game.

Wow no, fuck everything about the bolded statement. This kind of thing is not left up to the player. You have to get lucky with yellow drops as well as grind out base currency to uptrade into useful orbs people will sell you shit for to have actual alt-funding.

No one just passes up everything. Literally no one. This game's itemization is what causes that void in currency.

I like PoE for the talent tree, gems and links, its beautiful

One of the main problem we have right now is the lack of content to the leveling curve, which imply that we have to do a lot of farming and grinding during the content and its all about end game (for me map are considered grinding and farming.

farming and grinding are good but its bad when it become the main activity

there is too much random in this game (loot and crafting are the main one) and its detrimental to the game

trading would not be such an issue if the crafting system wasnt that random...

I'm of the opinion that char development is too slow at the moment.

As toyotatundra said, it's impossible to play multiple build because there is no way to make them work unless you buy all the gear you need. So you focus on your main char but that gets boring quite fast, and with the RNG working against you you end up saying to yourself: "this is awfully tiring, no way I'm going through all of this once again to try a new build!"

In my opinion by level 90 we should be able to run around with very powerful gear and 1 if not 2 6L items, all without trading.

If that was the case, once one char becomes that powerful I'd roll a new build because I'd know that in a few months' time (I play just 2-3 hours a day) I'd be able to complete said new char and start over with another one!

At the moment PoE is in the exact same spot that made me quit Diablo 3: it's all about containing the single player experience because there's an economy to keep in control.

Well, frack the economy: I'm here to play, not to keep the RMTs by the hand!

A cornerstone of ARPG forums is players making outrageous, sweeping statements mostly related to their personal experiences of things and then demanding changes that would, in theory, generate different experiences.

Another cornerstone of ARPG forums is that there will always be at least one poster who is much more of a "True Scotsman" than you will ever be and all of your arguments are 100% invalid due to that.

More recently there has been another cornerstone added, that there appears to be large number of players with the expectation that all games should be "completable" in roughly the same number of hours as your average console RPG. This includes top end builds, gear, and max level.

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Sinnesteuer escreveu:

A cornerstone of ARPG forums is players making outrageous, sweeping statements mostly related to their personal experiences of things and then demanding changes that would, in theory, generate different experiences.

Another cornerstone of ARPG forums is that there will always be at least one poster who is much more of a "True Scotsman" than you will ever be and all of your arguments are 100% invalid due to that.

More recently there has been another cornerstone added, that there appears to be large number of players with the expectation that all games should be "completable" in roughly the same number of hours as your average console RPG. This includes top end builds, gear, and max level.

This. I also lol'd. Great post.

You're comparing cheating at D2 with playing legit here in PoE. The two aren't comparable. Trading in D2 was cheating. Those runes you traded for were duped. Here, trading is at least "legit", even though many consider it cheating as well.

Lots of players have fun cheating. There's nothing wrong with it so long as you're aware and make others aware that you're cheating.

You really don't seem to be aware that you were in D2 though. That's a problem.

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Ludvator escreveu:

rolling new characters is key to ARPGs replayability

Exactly, and this is the core issue behind most of the game's apparent faults.

People keep coming up with MMO-style solutions (bind to account, auction house) to an ARPG problem. The real solution is simple, encourage players to roll new characters with the following:

1. Make maps a measuring stick instead of a climb by hastening map progression.
2. Encourage players to spend less time with the same few skills by hastening build completion.
3. Make pre-map gameplay more entertaining by having mid-game maps as an alternative to story.
4. Reduce the boredom of rolling a new character by letting race characters get transferred into seasonal leagues.

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Novalisk escreveu:

Exactly, and this is the core issue behind most of the game's apparent faults.

People keep coming up with MMO-style solutions (bind to account, auction house) to an ARPG problem. The real solution is simple, encourage players to roll new characters with the following:

1. Make maps a measuring stick instead of a climb by hastening map progression.
2. Encourage players to spend less time with the same few skills by hastening build completion.
3. Make pre-map gameplay more entertaining by having mid-game maps as an alternative to story.
4. Reduce the boredom of rolling a new character by letting race characters get transferred into seasonal leagues.

Spot on. Trying to jam MMO solution pegs into an ARPG hole (lol not meant to be dirty) is a terrible idea.

Those listed are good ones as well.